Yet another newbie

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PumpkinPie

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Dec 27, 2008
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Hi there, Hope this is ok to post...

I am setting up a small (5 gallon) tank, and have a few questions. I have read the sticky about cycling, and the one that says, "Read this before setting up a tank" (I think that is what it was called. Anywho...) and I still have a few questions.

I received a Top Fin brand 5 gallon acrylic tank for Christmas and it came with a small in tank filter and two small bottles of Top Fin brand water conditioners. One was an enzyme/bacteria type thing, and the other was a fish slime type thing. Sorry I can't be more specific at the moment. After reading on here for quite a while, I am realizing these are most likely pretty much worthless, and I am going to order a small bottle of Prime and add that to the mix. I am not sure if I should just dump the water I have and start over completely, or add it to what I have. There are no fish in there, but I do have a few plants that I bought and put in.

My next questions is in regards to my heater. I bought a small pad type heater that is currently under the gravel. It said on the package that it will raise the temp a couple of degrees above the room temp. I live in Vermont, and it gets mighty cold here in the winter. I tend to put my heat down to around 56-58 at night, and am wondering if this heater is pretty much useless. I can't bring it back now, and am really regretting buying it. Will the temp of the tank fall enough during the night to make it an issue? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy another heater?

My third question is in regards to my filter. The tank came with a very small built in filter that uses Whisper media bags size Medium (according to the package that came with it). Is this enough filtration for the tank, or do I need to buy another filter as well? Will the plants help at all with the filtration in there?

My next question (for now) is in regards to testing supplies. I have been looking around online and found some ammonia in tank meters that show you at a glance approximately what the ammonia is. How accurate are these? I am thinking of getting one and also testing ammonia daily once I put my fish in, at least initially. I realize there will be an ammonia spike with the new fish, but I was thinking if I tested in the morning, and things got high by the evening, I would have a heads up with the in tank monitor rather than waiting until morning to do another daily test.

Also, where do you all buy your supplies from? My only options are PetSmart and Petco here, unfortunately. I am thinking I am going to buy online. Does anyone have any recommendations?

One last question is in regards to fish. I would like to get some zebra danios for the tank. Do you think that four danios plus a shrimp would do well in a 5 gallon tank? Is that too many? Too few? Just right?

Thanks in advance!:)

ETA: I forgot to add, I am extremely low income, so any money saving tips would be greatly appreciated for getting things going. I am actually mostly setting this tank up for my nearly 2 year old son to watch his "fishies", but I would like to take great care of them for my peace of mind as well.
 
Prime shouldn't be used to pull a cycle, but as a water conditioner for established tanks. Rather than using prime, you can save some $$ if the store uses a compatible filter cartridge, or bio balls. Just offer to buy a new cartridge or bio balls (which will cost less than $10) for their tank if they'll give you their bacteria-laden ones. With bio balls, use zip ties to hold them together so they don't float out, and just dump of the usual filter cartridge. You can use some cheap nylon stuffing in with it if you're concerned about water clarity. From there, find out if your water company uses chlorine or chloramine. If it's chlorine, you can just boil the water and leave it to cool, or let stand for 24 hours with the occasional stir.

Monitor the temp with a thermometer. They're like $2.50 for a glass one that works (don't buy the strips). If the heater makes it, then you're good. If there's an indicator light for when it's on and off, that can be a hint too. On all night might be a problem.

Whispers run a good GPH rate for small tanks; if the box for the filter says its suitable, then it probably is. Plants are always welcome to an aquarium, so long as you select the right kind. Java fern, java moss, dwarf anubias and several other species would do just fine.

Liquid ammonia test kits can get false positives from some fish medications. Otherwise, they're pretty good. Nitrite will be another concern. If you go with danio's I wouldn't bother worrying

As for stocking, danio's might be doable, you'll probably find a lot of naysayers. I would say that they might stress easily in a tank that size. Rather, you might be better off looking at a beta, maybe a few otocinclus sp. You could also try one of the dwarf anabantoids.
 
So, I just realized that my parents who gave my son the tank for Christmas actually have the exact same tank at their house that they use for baby guppies. I could actually snag a filter cartridge from them to establish the bacteria in my tank by putting their cartridge in my filter, am I correct? Their tank has had no illness recently, and has been in use for about year, so I think it would be a good one to use.

I am actually not a big beta fan, although their fins are pretty, I would really like something a bit more lively. Maybe I just haven't seen a healthy beta, but all of the ones I have seen all just lie on the bottom of the tank, or hide in plants. I would really like a fish or two that my son will be able to see when he peeks in the tank. I am not sure what an anabantoid is.

I am also not sure where to find the specific plants you mentioned. I am actually not even sure what plants I bought. :o I just bought some smallish plants and popped them in the river rock gravel that I was given with the tank. I will most likely buy some more appropriate plant substrate in the spring when I can have it shipped without having to use overnight shipping due to cold temps here. I am going to just wing it and replace plants as they die for now (if that won't hurt the fish) until I can afford to get the right substrate.

So, any advice on where to find relatively accurate, low cost ammonia tests? I can't really run into the pet store every day to have them check my water, as it is a half hour drive away from me. Also, what about the ammonia meter than hangs in the tank. Good idea? Waste of money? Eye sore?

Thanks for the reply!
 
Anyone else out there? I so want to get this tank right. I just hate to think of putting fish in there and killing them, or even just stressing them out.
 
I would think a school of glowlight tetras would look very nice in your tank,or maybe some platties A corydoras catfish would also look nice

As far as a online place for where to buy supplies I highly suggest Drs Foster and Smith. They are great. Their service is fantastic.

Here is the link to their site: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/

Here is also a link to a Ammonia kit from their site. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13524 Whenever you get enough money I would suggest on buying a Complete Liquid Master Test Kit from them

Here is also link to their Live Aquaria site :http://www.liveaquaria.com/

Hope this helps
 
Hi and welcome to the forum!

A 5 gallon tank is pretty small in the the fish world but there are a couple stocking options that are appropriate. You mentioned a betta and they are a great option. One reason they can be lazy is because they aren't that healthy when you get them from the store but once they are on a healthy diet and build up their swimming muscles (yes they do like to swim :) ) they will be zooming around the tank. Some other options are endlers and if you are feeling adventurous and do your research you could try a dwarf puffer. Also, bumblebee gobies are really cute and would work in a 5 gallon.

Do you have a picture of your plants? Many plants the stores sell are not truely aquatic plants and will eventually start to rot and foul up the water. Like Philosophos said, some good plants for your tank would be low light plants like anubias and java ferns.

Liquid test kits are the way to go, avoid the strips because they are not as accurate. Also, don't worry about pH, a stable pH is much more important then one that is fluctuates.

I wouldn't bother throwing out the water in the tank. One way to start the cycling process without any fish is to just put a small pinch of food in the tank 1-2 times a day to feed the bacteria.

Hope that helps. Let us know if you have any other questions.
 
Well crap. I crashed TWICE in the middle of a big reply to this thread, so I'm going to save this thing periodically while typing it.

First up, if you take your parents cartridge, they won't have a culture. If they're ok with that, then it'll work just fine. If you take it from the LFS store that you buy your stock from, then they most likely have shared water, so you won't take all of their culture. If its the one you buy your stock from, then the disease factor shouldn't be much higher than that of buying your fish.

As an alternative, you could buy a good bacteria culture commercially. Be sure to get something with a reputation that works. "Safe Start" by Tetra seems to have replaced Bio-spira over the past little bit. There are other products as well. I would recommend doing some research on the topic. Do NOT use a product called, "Cycle" it's a waste of money.

If you don't mind waiting, and you want to save money, a fishless cycle will work. Pure ammonia is your best bet here. Any cheap brand is probably safe; just make sure the only ingredient listed is ammonia. There are a number of threads and articles hanging around that you can look up for dosing rates. You'll want to have an ammonia and nitrite test for this one, and maybe bring in a water sample to the LFS to do a nitrate test before buying your fish, just to make sure that nitrates are being produced and the cycle hasn't been halted. Adding fish food will also dump nitrates and phosphate in to your tank; this can give you a bad algae bloom and a false positive for a completed cycle.

I agree with betas; they're boring, and they'll suck up the bioload of your 5g. Some people like them though. IMO you're better off getting 5 smaller fish with comparable activity level to create more points of motion in the tank. This will probably be better for them stress wise than a beta, and offer more motion, without getting the stunting and stress problems that a school of high energy fish might undergo. Already mentioned are dwarf puffers. They would need to be a species only tank, and shrimp won't go with them. Otherwise, they'd do fine IMO. Also mentioned are bumblebee gobi's. Some like a hint of brackish water, and they're a bit shy. Not a bad choice either though. Regular cory's would be too big, and would probably die a horrible death from stunted growth. You could look in to the dwarf species of cory (I know nothing about them, just know they exist) as they may not get big enough to cause this problem.

Other recommended fish might include licorice gouramis (they're a bit tricky to keep), sparking gouramis, scarlet gem badis, and maybe a small nannostomus sp.

Liquid test kits are fairly simple things, and are the best bang for your buck. They aren't as precise as electronic testers, but they work. Red sea, hagen (if they still make test kits) and a few others out there (API or Tetra make them?) probably all work. Most have the exact same chemicals I'm guessing, as all their results and instructions are pretty similar. Ammonia can get false positives. I find hang on the side ph and ammonia readers worthless because of cost and accuracy; you might as well go liquid. A full test kit is nice, but your vitals, if you're not going with zebra danio's, are ammonia, nitrite and ph.

As for the plants, do your reading. You'll waste tons of money buying plants that don't work if you don't do at least basic research. More plants will die than live by far in your aquarium (statistically speaking) if you don't know what you can keep, or how to keep them. That being said, a couple days of reading and a little advice can get you a list of commonly stocked plants at most pet stores that require very little upkeep.

Foster and smith can be a good place to get things that aren't carried anywhere near you. Aquabid can help with that too. I find both are brutally over-priced, and even when they aren't, the shipping on small orders can be a killer. I prefer shopping at non-chain fish stores when possible; it's usually a knowledgeable individual that owns the store who is giving you advice there. In big commercial pet stores, most of the time you'll find a bunch of kids who will end up killing all of the fish in your tank with their inexperienced advice. There's sort of an unspoken malice against the chain pet store worker among new fish keepers.
 
PumpkinPie said:
So, I just realized that my parents who gave my son the tank for Christmas actually have the exact same tank at their house that they use for baby guppies. I could actually snag a filter cartridge from them to establish the bacteria in my tank by putting their cartridge in my filter, am I correct? Their tank has had no illness recently, and has been in use for about year, so I think it would be a good one to use.
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You can take a portion of their filter, just snip it off, and put it in your filter with the new filter. You don't need the whole filter. It will not instantly cycle your tank but it will help a lot. If you do that and don't have fish yet, make sure you put fish food or ammonia in the tank to feed the bacteria.
 
Ok, so I called my parents, and they actually don't have any filter cartridge in their tank. They don't have fish in there right now and the filter was "dirty" so they threw it away. I am wondering about the cartridge in my tank though. It says on the directions to replace the cartridge once a month. If I toss it and put a new one in, will I effectively destroy all of the bacteria in my tank? How on earth do you keep it clean? That doesn't really make sense to me. *insert confused newbie smilie here*

I so, so, so wish I had a fish store other than PetSmart or Petco around here. All the references to good stores as opposed to chains has me envious of you folks living in larger areas. We just don't have any.

I would so love to do a fishless cycle to get it started in order to prevent killing or stressing out my fish. Where do you get pure ammonia? How much does it cost? Will adding bits of fish food really work too?

Also, does Prime expire? Having such a small tank, I can't see needing all that much need for a huge bottle of it. It seems to be much cheaper the larger quantity you buy, but if it expires, that doesn't seem to really make much economic sense.
 
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