Yet another newbie

[PumpkinPie]

So, I just realized I do have a LFS!!! Yippee!! I had completely forgotten about it, as it moved a couple of years ago to a side street in town that I never really go down. Here is the link to them. I am going there today to check them out, and maybe have my tap water tested to see what the pH, hardness, ammonia, etc baseline levels are. (just for fun, really) I also want to pick up a bottle of Prime without having to pay for shipping. I may see what they prices are on testing supplies as well. If they are comparable to that I have seen online, I may get them as well to avoid shipping charges.

They seem to have a nice store from their website. Do you think they would be safe to get some filter media from? Or are pretty much all LFS's unsafe in that regard?

Thanks again for all of the replies. Off to do more reading!

 

[Rbishop]

Don't worry too much about the carbon. It goes inactive in about a week and then just acts as further filtration and place for bacteria to attach itself. The only time people really use carbon is when they are trying to remove something, like a chemical or medicine, from the water. If its there, then go ahead and leave it, if you don't have it, I wouldn't buy it unless you need it to remove something.

Ummm...so very not true for many of us. You don't necessarily need it, but it can be a great help in water clarity.....

 

[Philosophos]

Pumpkinpie, the bacteria culture from any LFS will be more dangerous than from a descent fish keeper. There's just too many fish moving through to guarantee a safe tank. That being said, if you buy your fish from the same water, it doesn't increase the risk by much, since the fish will all ready be exposed. I would not reccomend doing it if the fish store looks sub-par. Disease, uncleanly conditions and gasping/injured fish strewn around are a good sign. The store you're going to looks pretty good from what I can see of it on its web site. It sounds like the owner takes an interest in the store, rather than its stock and methods being determined by share holders. They also seem eager to order things in, which is one of the most helpfull things you can get in a LFS.

Anyhow, if you borrow off their filter media, I'm betting it's going to be bio balls or ceramic tubes or some such thing. You should probably pick up a small pack of zip ties if you end up with the bio-balls. If you get these, don't bother rinsing them out- just remove them and clean the filter. If you end up with a sponge, shimmy it gently in some dechlorinated water- don't squeeze the thing out. As for the carbon filter inserts, I've always avoided them. They're inferior filtration and water flow IMO, and improving it is cheap.

I don't know why anyone would keep carbon in their system for clarity. Nylon wool, water clarifier (on tanks where the bottom can be heavily gravel vac'ed) and UV sterilization can take care of anything I've come up against. That or finnishing the cycle/removing ammonia.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Ok, so I visited my LFS today and was less than impressed. There were a lot of employees milling around and only one willing to help out. When I was finally able to talk to him, he said that I should add fish immediately to my tank, and that there was no way other than that to get a bacteria growth going. He suggested putting a couple of fish in there, waiting 2-4 weeks and then bringing in a water sample to be tested.

I ended up saying "No thanks, we aren't getting fish today", and leaving. I went over to PetSmart to pick up some Prime, and some testing supplies. I was able to find some ammonia at my local hardware store without any surfactants in it as well. I was so underwhelmed by his response to me asking about getting my tank going without fish, that I am thinking that I will be coming here for my advice, there for my fish, and PetSmart for my supplies/chemicals/testing supplies.

I tested the water in the tank for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate just to make sure there was nothing in my tap water, and everything was 0. I added a couple of drops of ammonia and will test it again tonight for ammonia to see what it brought it up to. We shall see!

Thanks again for everyone's advice and helpful replies.

 

[severum mama]

I don't know why anyone would keep carbon in their system for clarity. Nylon wool, water clarifier (on tanks where the bottom can be heavily gravel vac'ed) and UV sterilization can take care of anything I've come up against. That or finnishing the cycle/removing ammonia.

For those of us who don't want to dump unknown chemical additives into our tanks and are not on a budget that allows for a UV sterilizer, carbon is a beautiful thing. I can't tell you how many threads I've seen around here asking how to remove tannins from driftwood, for example, and carbon of course is the easiest and most economical choice. That said, I don't use it in any of my tanks, but all of mine are quite established and I have zero issues with water clarity and no reason to medicate.

PumpkinPie, you are definitely on the right track here and the store you linked looks like a reputable place. I'd check it out for sure, although I wouldn't add filter media from a lfs to begin a new tank due to the risk of introducing disease, JMHO. As for bumblebee gobies, they are a great fish and really cute, but in my personal experience with them they are not a "beginner" fish, nor are they what I would consider an active fish. Your son may enjoy a betta more, or some small peaceful killifish like gardneris, etc. Endler's livebearers would be great too, and they're really colorful. You could keep 3-4 of those IMO.

 

[Philosophos]

For those of us who don't want to dump unknown chemical additives into our tanks and are not on a budget that allows for a UV sterilizer, carbon is a beautiful thing. I can't tell you how many threads I've seen around here asking how to remove tannins from driftwood, for example, and carbon of course is the easiest and most economical choice. That said, I don't use it in any of my tanks, but all of mine are quite established and I have zero issues with water clarity and no reason to medicate.

Water clarifiers are just aluminum sulphate. You'll find it in such unknown dangerous compounds as baking powder and water purifiers. Unless you've got some exceptional water params, it just precipitates to the bottom, taking other things with it. Gravel vac thoroughly after, and its clear. Drift wood boils down and loses its color tinting properties after about 10 hours on an average chunk. It takes care of the problem for good. The UV is great, but if it's too expensive, then there are other ways to handle water clouding from algae.

Pumpkinpie, it sounds like you've got things pretty well sorted. Store jumping is kind of the standard for fish keeping. My fiance and I go to probably about a half dozen different stores in any 3 month period, with a couple we visit more regularly as our favorites. Good move passing up the fish store; sorry to hear the employees seemed lazy and incompetent. Come here for the advice if you like, but don't let it stop here. I find verifying with peer reviewed journals and good books answer the tough questions.

 

[Hooked Newbie]

Water clarifiers are just aluminum sulphate. You'll find it in such unknown dangerous compounds as baking powder and water purifiers. Unless you've got some exceptional water params, it just precipitates to the bottom, taking other things with it. Gravel vac thoroughly after, and its clear. Drift wood boils down and loses its color tinting properties after about 10 hours on an average chunk. It takes care of the problem for good. The UV is great, but if it's too expensive, then there are other ways to handle water clouding from algae.

Pumpkinpie, it sounds like you've got things pretty well sorted. Store jumping is kind of the standard for fish keeping. My fiance and I go to probably about a half dozen different stores in any 3 month period, with a couple we visit more regularly as our favorites. Good move passing up the fish store; sorry to hear the employees seemed lazy and incompetent. Come here for the advice if you like, but don't let it stop here. I find verifying with peer reviewed journals and good books answer the tough questions.

Running Carbon requires no additional maintenance and doesn't add anything to the tank, it just removes substances. IMO it's best to minimize the compounds in the water, not add to them. Running carbon is a much more natural choice to me. Water is purified through limestone and various other substances on it's way to the natural habitats of fish. I'm not aware of a natural process that add aluminum sulphate or baking soda.

Average chunk? What type of wood are you speaking of? Many types will release tannins for YEARS. Some many months even after long duration boiling or soaking. I know this because I have experienced it firsthand in my tanks.

UV sterilization is really overkill in a FW system IMO. Algae can (and IMO should be) controlled by controlling the factors that promote it (nutrients, light, etc.). To each their own though.

 

[Philosophos]

Running Carbon requires no additional maintenance and doesn't add anything to the tank, it just removes substances. IMO it's best to minimize the compounds in the water, not add to them. Running carbon is a much more natural choice to me. Water is purified through limestone and various other substances on it's way to the natural habitats of fish. I'm not aware of a natural process that add aluminum sulphate or baking soda.

Carbon needs to be replaced regularly, or it's only use is as a bacteria medium. Usually it needs replacing every 2-3 days. Calling it a, "natural choice" is an argumentum ad vericundium. Quite naturally, water filters through ecoli ridden bovine feces and some fallen pods of datura or jimsonweed. For that matter, why use chlorine removers? Assuming its not chloramine, leaving it to stand for a day or two with some light aeration would be a much more natural dissipation method. A component being natural doesn't make it necessarily better or worse, thus it is an argument from irrelivent authority. The actual impact of the chemicals being added and the variables it impacts being understood is what leads to a tautology. Besides, plutonium is 100% all natural. Besides, carbon doesn't do a fraction of what water clarifier can. Test it out for your self with an empty bucket and filter. Really the way to go for is multi stage mechanical filtration, which is what you'll get in a cannister. Anything it doesn't clean up is something that you're doing wrong anyhow IME.

Average chunk? What type of wood are you speaking of? Many types will release tannins for YEARS. Some many months even after long duration boiling or soaking. I know this because I have experienced it firsthand in my tanks.

Mopani or malasian driftwood is what you'll find sitting around in the average tank. That or grape vine. It reduces the DISCOLORATION completely. It takes 3 fresh batches of water at a 3-4 hour boil per round. If its not clear after that, I keep going until it is. Thus far it has worked for chunks of wood sized for a 125g, 20g, 33g and soon to be a 10g. I have tested it all with a pH meter. As for the tanic acid, after a 10 hour boil on any of those, I have never experienced more than a .1 drop in ph.

UV sterilization is really overkill in a FW system IMO. Algae can (and IMO should be) controlled by controlling the factors that promote it (nutrients, light, etc.). To each their own though.

$75 investment to kill parasites and quickly control algae blooms in the water from feeding disasters brought on by relatives or house sitters is overkill? I think most of us have lost more money from diseases that can be reduced or prevented by one. It's not even something that has to run all the time; kick it on after a water change or at the first signs stress or ich. It's a good tool for damage control.

 

[Rbishop]

Pumpkinpie, the bacteria culture from any LFS will be more dangerous than from a descent fish keeper. There's just too many fish moving through to guarantee a safe tank. That being said, if you buy your fish from the same water, it doesn't increase the risk by much, since the fish will all ready be exposed. I would not reccomend doing it if the fish store looks sub-par. Disease, uncleanly conditions and gasping/injured fish strewn around are a good sign. The store you're going to looks pretty good from what I can see of it on its web site. It sounds like the owner takes an interest in the store, rather than its stock and methods being determined by share holders. They also seem eager to order things in, which is one of the most helpfull things you can get in a LFS.

Anyhow, if you borrow off their filter media, I'm betting it's going to be bio balls or ceramic tubes or some such thing. You should probably pick up a small pack of zip ties if you end up with the bio-balls. If you get these, don't bother rinsing them out- just remove them and clean the filter. If you end up with a sponge, shimmy it gently in some dechlorinated water- don't squeeze the thing out. As for the carbon filter inserts, I've always avoided them. They're inferior filtration and water flow IMO, and improving it is cheap.

I don't know why anyone would keep carbon in their system for clarity. Nylon wool, water clarifier (on tanks where the bottom can be heavily gravel vac'ed) and UV sterilization can take care of anything I've come up against. That or finnishing the cycle/removing ammonia.

Then you need to learn a lot more aboutthe chemical filtration that carbon does that the media can not do.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Errrrm... I hate to be a party pooper here, but I was just trying to set up a tiny little 5 gallon tank. I don't plan to replace the carbon cartridge in my tank every month as suggested by the enclosed paperwork, but if I do need to remove some meds, I do plan to replace it. I don't plan to buy a canister filter or a UV sterilizer or use any driftwood in my tank. I am so sorry that my first thread here started such an argument over how best to get things started.