Companion Fish???

[ChilDawg]

I'm looking for a companion fish among the following 15 cichlids, but I need to know which ones make good specimen (read: single) fish that react well to their owners.

Okay, I see that the top one is obviously a companion-type fish, but I'm looking for other options on the list:

Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus)
Firemouth (Thorichthys meeki)
Dempsey (Nandopsis octofasciatum)
Port Acara (Cichlasoma portalegrensis)
Chanchito (Herichthys facetum)
------------
Mozambique Mouthbrooder (Saratherodon mossambicus)
Texas (Herichthys cyanoguttatum)
Green Texas (Herichthys carpinte)
Chocolate (Hypselecara temporalis)
Synspilum (Vieja synspilum)
------------
Orange Tiger (Nandopsis urophthalmus)
Convict (Archocentrus nigrofasciatum)
Neet (Neetroplus nematopus)
Rainbow (Herotilapia multispinosa)
Jade-Eye (Archocentrus spilurum)

TIA,

Matthew

[ChilDawg]

Sorry for the mis-leading title. I meant good companions for ME, not for my other fish...:D

[Jayhawk]

Since you're in college and need to have smaller tanks, I'd go for either the convict or the Jade-Eyed cichlid. Archocentrus species are very personally, stay right at 5", and unless you have a larger tank they're really your only choice for a specimen in a 10 gallon. Oh, the rainbow cichlid would work, too, but I like Archocentrus best.

[ChilDawg]

Thank you, Jayhawk!

I have a further question: Would your suggestions remain the same if space were no real consideration? The dorm in which I will live next year includes a suite area with each small set of rooms, and my tank (er, room) mates have all agreed to let me keep fish in the suite area.

[demon_surfer]

if space is no consideration you could try jaguar cichlids...I know they arent on you rlist but they are supposed to be very owner responsive.

[Jayhawk]

I really, really like CA cichlids, and I really like my pair of convicts in a 20 long. They're very personable, and they're a cute, devoted couple. Unfortunately, they're young...the female is currently guarding what I suspect to be unfertilized eggs and the male is keeping those dangerous Endler's livebearers at bay!

If you could have a larger tank, so a 40G, I'm also a big fan of either Texas cichlid. They're high personality. I had one for 10 years - my wife and I both mourned when he passed away.

So, personally, depending on tank size, I would stick with one or even two Archocentrus sp. or perhaps a single Texas.

[scott]

If you decide to go with the Texas go with the "escondido" from Jeff Rapps, check out the picture on mojo's forum, nice fish. I have to say the synspium is a rather skittish fish and IME always hides when you aproach the tank but is very interesting if you take the time to sit there and observe his behaviors after he thinks that you have left. I don't think he'd be good for a public area though. I'd also skip the dempsey as after they hit six inches they pretty much hole up IME. Firemouths, well, there okay but you know as well as I there are cooler fish. An oscar is very personable and I love mine but I can't help but realize how much tank space he takes up. I'd personally say go with some smaller species and some dithers more bang for your buck, maybe some nics or the rainbows. The uropthalmus is a great looking fish but I'd say if your going to go red terror go festae, I love mine, he's definately aptly named. Quite the wishy washy post but thats what I think. How many gallons are you thinking? A public area is quite different from a tank you might set up in your room.

[caz]

you could really keep rainbows, and jade eyed in a 10 gallon?

[ChilDawg]

Those 'Escondidos' are pretty cool-looking, but they seem to be the same as the Carpintes I have in my books...that may just be because they chose the best ones for pictures!

I'm thinking 55 max, because of transportation issues, but I could be convinced to go bigger (actually, that would not be too tough, but my parents are another issue...)

How quickly would the Texas or Green Texas grow? That might be a huge factor in my decision!

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by caz
you could really keep rainbows, and jade eyed in a 10 gallon?

I could see it, but I do have a spare 20 high sitting around the house, so I'd use that for either of those fish as specimens.

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by ChilDawg


I could see it...

...with a lot of filtration and a large amount of water changes. I'm just that careful.

[scott]

My texas grew from two to five inches in about three months, but then he died through my own negligence. I added to much of a herbicide to kill a green water algae outbreak that was my own fault to begin with.....anyway. I belive the escondido is just a color morph, but a mighty impressive one (don't quote me on that). My texas was, well, everything you would imagine texas to be.

[ChilDawg]

So, about an inch a month...hmm...I wonder if my parents would have kittens over that growth rate?

Don't get me wrong, I think that the Escondido is impressive, but I wouldn't pay extra for it, especially if I could find a Carpinte with "book colouration." I've looked back, and it looks like most of the Carpintes in books are collected from that region, but I think that I've seen some impressive ones from elsewhere. I'll have to ask Mr. Rapps about that, eh?

[scott]

definately ask him. I can not find any info on it being a seperate species and coming from him I doubt it is a hybrid so I am left with only the assumption of the morph, like I said don't quote me on it. But I think the extra (dollar?) is worth it for such a fine looking fish. Of course you have to cover the fifty dollar minimum but hey, I want to check out that "undescribed" dwarf he has. I want to get five four my 29 and get a pair, I'm sure the LFS would take the rest in trade.

[ChilDawg]

From what I read over there, it cannot be a hybrid because of where it is found in Mexico, and, yeah, I can't see Jeff carrying a hybrid fish...especially since he goes out of his way to nail down the geographic variant-elevated-to-species names for his Oscars! That's dedication...

The $50 thing is a little much...I was hoping for a fish which could be found fairly cheaply at an LFS.

I still can't remember why the Jag isn't on my list, so I may just put it right back on there!

I am forwarding the thread to my parents as they are helping me pick the fish as well...this way they have less of a problem with certain fish being in the house!

Also, the Firemouth point--I agree that there are much cooler fish, and I am starting to lean away from them!

[scott]

The jags are definately cool but I would check out the tigers, motaguense, you can find them at an LFS in the city (I've seen them in Atlanta for about $12) and they are also guapotes. A littler rarer but similar personality, more of a converstion piece with the same attitude so to speak. Of course Jeff also has them.

[Jayhawk]

Caz - I meant a single Jade eye or Rainbow cichlid in a 10 gallon not a pair. I wouldn't go with anything less than a 20 long for either fish (convicts, too, again one in a 10 or 2 in a 20 long).

Carpinte is the species of Texas I had. He was great. Jumped from 1 to about 5 inches in somewhere around 5 months, then grew another 2 inches the rest of his life. Some get bigger, actually, there is a very good chance he was a she...but since I only had the one I never took the time to figure it out (which is strange since she/he lived a decade with me). I do know some stay smaller than the books list.

A 55 is a very nice size tank, but it's a real bear to move. I moved my tank back on forth from my dorm during the breaks, so back then I only kept a 20 gallon high. I kept a parade of cichlids (single specimen) in the tank. I'd buy babies, raise them until they were getting to large for the tank, then trade them in for another baby and some supplies...it kept me in fish for 4 years. If I were to do it over again, I'd go for the 20 long or 29 with convicts, jade eyes or rainbows with 3 small dither variatus platys. That way, you get more natural behavior, you'll probably get breeding behavior, plus if you can get a nice pair (which is what makes convicts great - they're so easy to sex and they pair up easily) you may get some fry surviving to trade in size for supplies...

[inxs]

A jag will get BIG, IMO too big for a 55 - IME they are also stalkers and as cool as I find them I really don't see them as an owner interactive fish .

I have heard good things about the Texas for what you are looking for.

One I would highly reccommend would be Midas/Red Devil/labiatus/citronellum . I clumped them together as it is hard or almost impossible to find true purebred labiatus or citronellum and most people feel that the production of these fish in florida and the far east has led to some of each species being involved.

You can usually find them locally and small. They seem to grow well and eat well on almost any food - even veggies. Mine are very interactive and curious about what is going on any time I'm near the tank. They chase eachother and the dithers allover .

I think that is a great fish for a pet.

[ChilDawg]

inxs, that is a good grouping, too, but my parents did rule it out as "Red Devil" complex was not something with which they wanted to deal...

So I'm hearing mostly Carpintes and "True Texans", with votes for the Rainbows, Cons, or Jade-Eyes if I stay with a smaller tank...is this about right?

Keep posting, please, guys...I'm excited to be getting a new fish soon!!! :)

[Jayhawk]

Your right on target!

[scott]

IMO if you were choosing between the red devil and the texas I would go with the texas as you could actually put in say a raphael cat and a couple of dithers where as a mature devil would anihilate everything, or so I have heard. But if you want only one fish in a tank I think the red devil is a nicely colored fish, but once again I would say order a midas or citronellum or labiatus from rapps so you know you have a pure bred, if thats what you want.

[ChilDawg]

<G> Glad to hear that I'm on target, Jayhawk!

I really, really like the Red Devils, but I think that I couldn't get away with them in my house, especially after the conversation that my parents and I had about how they came to earn such a name...and the research that they did. I'll see if I can convince them--Scott, those I would definitely buy from Jeff, because I do like knowing what I am getting, and that seems to be one of the few ways to know for sure!

[scott]

Personally though I would go for a breeding pair of nics with some rainbow dithers and a small catfish or a galaxy or clown pleco. that would be a nice 75 and really not take up any more room that the fifty five. I would really go with a 75 though, it was posted somewhere else but I think its a great saying, a 55 is a large tank for small fish and a 75 is a small tank for big fish. Go with the 75 you of all people know what a difference that width will make. I hit my head everyday when I look at my 55 and wonder why I didn't kick down the extra money for the 75.

[scott]

If you do want a highly agressive single tank specimen go with the festae female, great colors and i can say my male has a pretty good personality.

[rus]

Originally posted by ChilDawg
I really, really like the Red Devils, but I think that I couldn't get away with them in my house, especially after the conversation that my parents and I had about how they came to earn such a name...and the research that they did.
just get a midas then.

[ChilDawg]

Well, since I have the 20 high at my disposal, I'm going with Archocentrus spilurum if I can find them at an LFS...think that's possible?

Also, any info on keeping A. spilurum happy would make me happy as well...so let me know!

[Jayhawk]

Treat them just like convicts. They get to the same size, are highly adaptable with water (although higher pH and hard are their preference - don't stress on water numbers, though).

I've never seen them locally in Kansas City, but other folks have better LFSs than I do. If you can't find them, convicts would still work well.

[ChilDawg]

Gotcha...I've posted a request for the Jades in the Wanted Ads, so if you know someone who wouldn't mind shipping some young'uns to Illinois, let them know!

[ChilDawg]

Let's confirm this: a single con in a 20g high will be happy and will be a companion fish for me?

[caz]

let me know if you find any man. i think i have found a great home for my large oscar. a lfs owner says that his friend has a 150 with a few oscars and other large fish. he wanted to breed the oscars, and mine might help to his sucess. but nothing is definate yet

[ChilDawg]

Well, the Cutteris seem to be out as Jeff won't have any by the time I go home...you could still venture an order with him, though, and see if you can get a whole bunch...ten (which would barely put you over the $50 order limit) might be a bit much for your tank, but you could always sell one or two to the LFS in exchange for food...

[demon_surfer]

how about a couple of geophagus *red heads*

Geophagus thread (http://208.51.130.220/~mojo/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=CA_SA;action=display;num=1052404412)


I really want a couple of these..they get about 4-7 inches and are gorgeous

bah wont let me link it...let me try again

http://208.51.130.220/~mojo/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=CA_SA;action=display;num=1052404412

bah just go to www.aquamojo.com go into his forum..too the top forum choice on cichlids and find the post on Geophagus *red head* should be on the second page.

[caz]

would they be the Cichlasoma spilurum variety?

[ChilDawg]

I've seen those ones...they are pretty, but they might just be a little out of the ol' price range...$45 for one fish??? I've never paid more than $2.50!

The Cutteris are the ones that I initially called Spilurum varieties, but they are actually their own species...they're the ones that are smaller and more colourful than the Spilurums.

[demon_surfer]

i know they are kind of expensive but if you go to jeffs site and look for the geophagus the other..bah i dont know the word...yuou know the other types of geophagus are almost as pretty and much cheaper in price

[caz]

i went to the website, and looked at the picture. the picture of the blue eyes are not very pretty, but i know its only pictures of the young, but any idea what these will look like when they get older? jsut curious because i have seen some not so pretty blue eyeds

[ChilDawg]

They seem to be pretty if you look around the Web a little bit for the fish by its scientific name...also, demon, I looked, and I still can't fathom spending that much on a fish for some of the other Geos...I wish that I could meet the min. order somehow, but, for right now, I think that I'll have to be content looking at Jeff's fish wistfully. <sigh> On the plus side, I will learn first-hand with a convict, and that will make it easier to keep Archocentros (Cryptoheros, anyone else hear the name change may soon come?) species in the future.

[demon_surfer]

the Archocentros are neat looking. I am goign to have a 20 gallon tank opening up soon and i have been thinking about putting a couple of convicts in it...I have never really looked at them before but there are some with really nice coloration

so have you set yourself on what size tank you are going to use yet?? 20 or a 55??

[ChilDawg]

To save on expense, I'm going to go with the 20 high that I already have. Plus, it will be easier to maneuver, which could be of the utmost importance, as I may have to break down a tank or two and bring them home for Winter Break next year!

[demon_surfer]

how about angelfish..they can be very hardy and owner responsive...nice colors and awesome finnage. what are you going to do with that idea you had of tanganikans? they would work in a 20 gallon...not sure about how owner responsive they would be though

[ChilDawg]

Tanganyikans don't move so hot...they're pretty weak fish when it comes to that aspect, so I don't think that I'll go that way, and Angels, from what I've seen lately, aren't my favorites...not nearly aggressive enough <Eyes glowing, the Dawg lets out a snort!!!>

[demon_surfer]

If you want something aggresive how about a salvinii? supposed to be the meanest lil buggers :cool: not sure on the size though so may be impractical ;)

bah just cram an arrowana in there an be done :D :D :D

[ChilDawg]

You might want to bow to Queen Judy before she reads that! :D

I was thinking about a Dovii...how do you think that would like a 2-1/2 gallon with a Snakehead and an RD?

(To all: Just kidding...my calculator almost exploded when I said that.:))

[demon_surfer]

no no you need ATLEAST 5 gallons if you are gonna put all three of those together...

but if the snake head and the dovii start to breed then you may need to move out the arrow :)

[scott]

Is a twenty high basicaly two tens stacked on top of each other? If so I don't think a full grown con would work. IMHO.

[ChilDawg]

The dimensions of the footprint are different:

20 X 10 on the 10g

24 X 12 on the 20 high...I guess that makes it 1.44 times as big in terms of surface area.

[scott]

Well that makes it better. You have a third of the fish in the width and three quarters in the length. I think if you bought a juvenile it would be quite happy. IMO the standard convicts are the best looking. The males are bad when they get the hump and the irridescent blue on their fins.:)

[ChilDawg]

Cool! Thanks for your help as well as the help of everyone else on this issue, and my future Con thanks you as well. :)

[scott]

IME I like to use danios as feeders as they are only a little more expensive ($.45 at my LFS) and don't carry anywhere near the disease content. Quarantine and add, really brings out the true attitude.;)

[Jayhawk]

ChillDawg - FYI - I had 3 Endler's Livebearers in with my convict pair. Had is the optimal word...

My pair has now spawned. I'm not 100% sure the male is not eating the fry, though, but we'll see if any make it!

The male I have is now abou 2.5" (maybe pressing 3) and he is getting long flowing fins, blue in them - one cool looking fish.

[ChilDawg]

Got any pix? That seems like a cool-looking male!

I have a guy w/i 90m of the city up the road willing to give me a Spilurum, so I just need to figure out where he is truly located...but, if he's not that close, I'll be getting some Cons, so I'm looking forward to the experience either way!

(I might get some feeder Danios...those seem like they'd be fun to watch!)

[Jayhawk]

ChillDawg - I'll have to try getting a few pics, but I live in a 35mm world so it'll take a week or two to use up the roll of film (for some odd reason my wife objects to 24 fish pictures in a row).

Hopefully, since the Cons are bigger than any of my shellies were, the pics will come out better.

Eric

[ChilDawg]

hehehe, my parents object to 24 straight of fish, too...I'll look forward to the pix if you can get them!!! :)

[demon_surfer]

buy your own bloody camera then!! :D

or just get one of those disposibles for like a buck