Big boys for a 75g?

[Corax]

I'm interested in putting 2-3 big cichlids in my 75g.

some I've considered:

oscars - nice, but everyone has oscars..
jack dempsey - nice too, a maybe
severum - nice, but kind of boring to watch. kind of like fat discus..
jaguar - love one, but they get too big for a 75g..
convicts - very interesting..

Any others suggestions?

The tank will be empty when I start adding these guys.. It has a Rena XP3, a sand substrate and a few large pieces of driftwood..

[Lexi_D]

Perhaps a flowerhorn or midas cichlid? Your other options for your list are: several convicts OR one oscar OR 1-2 JD's OR a few sevs.

[J double R]

meh, i would go with anything BUT a flowerhorn.

[Slappy*McFish]

Salvini

[frogman5]

convicts arent that great of a fish and severums are awesome

[Corax]

don't like Flowerhorns and I thought a midas was along the lins of a jaguar as far as size goes? not a huge fan of them, but it's worth a look I guess..

and yeah, my list wasn't meant to say I want ALL of those.. That'd be insane within a couple years..

what about firemouths?

[frogman5]

firemouths are pretty cool but not that big...if i were you i would do a nice red devil very cool fish

[Pittbull]

Firemouths and cutteri would make for a sweet setup..

Say about 6 to 7 firemouths and 4 to 5 cutteri, the reds from the firemouth would look sweet with the blue eyes of the cutteri and the yellow hues.. but these arent large fish by no means but would be cool..

Good luck buddy..

[inkyjenn]

i dunno. i enjoy the heck out of my convicts. lots of personality and are active. mine recognize me as the source of food, so when they see me they come straight to the front of the tank and chase me around

[jpappy789]

But with convicts you basically will have to either choose one or hundreds...

maybe FM and sevs?

[Agent_Scully]

Oscars are way fun but people say that a 75 is minimal for one. But you could add a pleco if you had the 75

[Corax]

Firemouths and cutteri would make for a sweet setup..

Say about 6 to 7 firemouths and 4 to 5 cutteri, the reds from the firemouth would look sweet with the blue eyes of the cutteri and the yellow hues.. but these arent large fish by no means but would be cool..

Good luck buddy..


I'd neaver heard of a cutteri before, those are lovely fish.. I've looked on the web, but I can't seem to find a decent profile for them. Got any links? I did find that they get 5-6", and I know that firemouths get 4-5".. That's a lot of fish for a 75g.. How about 2-3 firemouths, 3-4 cutteri and a single salvini?

also, any idea what cutteri cost?

what about some sort of dither fish?

How would these guys treat the following:

- school of cardinals?
- school of cories?
- plecos?
- kuhli loaches?

I have all of those in the 75g now, but they're leaving to make room and then the Fluorite substrate is coming out in exchange for a play sand substrate.. I was planning the sand because JD's, oscars and other bigger cichlids like to dig.. With these guys, I think I can probably skip the substrate swap..

[Corax]

Interesting..

od6Eow46kaU

Anything I could put in with a Midas in a 75g?

and seriously.. Is a Jaguar too much for a 75g?

and no, I don't mean a midas AND a jaguar in the 75g..

[krytan]

Anything I could put in with a Midas in a 75g? No a 75g is only big enough for ONE large cichlid

and seriously.. Is a Jaguar too much for a 75g? Yes 150g is the minimum size tank for a jag.

[Corax]

Anything I could put in with a Midas in a 75g? No a 75g is only big enough for ONE large cichlid

and seriously.. Is a Jaguar too much for a 75g? Yes 150g is the minimum size tank for a jag.

I understand that a 75g can handle one large cichlid.. I meant tankmates, like a pleco, pictus cats, etc.. Will a midas tolerate any sort of dither?

[krytan]

Midas are very aggressive most of them won't put up with tank mates in such a small space, it really depends on the personality of the individual fish.

[Corax]

bummer, I'd like to keep my plecos at least.. rubberlip and a peppermint, very cool fellas..

[Coler]

If I was stocking a 75 I'd have a midas. Awesome fish imo...unfortunately I believe this would render your current occupants lunch I believe...its risky but if you wanted to try and keep your plecos in there I would have a go with introducing a really young midas...there might be some chance if it grows up with 'em...and at the worst you would see the trouble starting and have a chance to address it before anything awful happened.

[excuzzzeme]

In my 90 (tall 75) I have 1 Oscar 12", 1 Pink Convict 4.5", 1 common Plec 12" - these 3 fish make it a "full" tank due to either bio-load or aggressiveness. Surprisingly, with only 3 fish it doesn't look empty.

[evelyn80]

an oscar hands down... best fish in the world IMO.

[Corax]

Can someone breakdown for me how the midas, red devil and flowerhorn are related? I remember reading that one is a hybrid of the others, but I don't recall where that article was. I'd love to find a midas like this one:

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and I really like this guy as well:

ZOyTzNJzXGA

[Pittbull]

Sorry for the late response still putting x-mas stuff together for my little girl hehehe busy daddy i am..

Yep that stock list should be ok for the firemouths and cutteri as long as you get rid of the cardinals, kuhli's and cory's the plecos would be fine the others would be a snack..

Here is a info link http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1341 i use to breed these fish and i had tons of photos but were lost due to a hard drive crash on my old computer i wish i still had those photos..

Here are a few photos of the cutteri http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishpictures/showphoto.php?photo=9774&si=parrot which in fact let me tell you these photos dont do any justice in my experience they are really beautiful fish 4 firemouths and 4 cutteri would be good avoid the salvini as for it is really aggressive and probably be too much for them but who knows it may work..

Have fun deciding my friend..

[Wyomingite]

and seriously.. Is a Jaguar too much for a 75g? Yes 150g is the minimum size tank for a jag.

150 gallons minimum? Shenanigans! You're acting like every jag will become a massive 18 incher. The average jag runs 13"-15", bout the same size as an oscar, and they're no heavier in build. Jags bigger than that are the exception, far from the rule. How people can claim a 75 is fine for an oscar, which has the potential to reach 16" or 17", but too small for a jag blows my mind.

WYite

[Corax]

Sorry for the late response still putting x-mas stuff together for my little girl hehehe busy daddy i am..

Yep that stock list should be ok for the firemouths and cutteri as long as you get rid of the cardinals, kuhli's and cory's the plecos would be fine the others would be a snack..

Here is a info link http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1341 i use to breed these fish and i had tons of photos but were lost due to a hard drive crash on my old computer i wish i still had those photos..

Here are a few photos of the cutteri http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishpictures/showphoto.php?photo=9774&si=parrot which in fact let me tell you these photos dont do any justice in my experience they are really beautiful fish 4 firemouths and 4 cutteri would be good avoid the salvini as for it is really aggressive and probably be too much for them but who knows it may work..

Have fun deciding my friend..

Thanks for the links. I'm still deciding between multiple smaller fish or 1 big one. Wife wants one big one, daughter wants one big one, I want multiple so I can hang on to my plecos..

What is your opinion on the jaguar tank size question? Numerically, a Jag isn't that different from an Oscar, and I always see 75g for a single oscar.

Also, can someone tell me what the difference between a Red Devil and a Midas is? Juveniles look identical (saw both yesterday) and adults look a lot alike too.. Saw an 8" RD yesterday, and plenty of videos of a midas that looks very similar.. Even found one website where the names were used back and forth..

and finally.. If I do go with 1 big one (a juvenile of a big one, either a RD or a Jag), how do my plecos' chances look?

[Pittbull]

Personally i think that the 75gal would be good for one jag plus you can keep the current plecos if you obtain a juvie jag with a hit or miss incident in the future when the jag is grown, and in my opinion i think you have room for a couple of juvie male cons to offset the alone factor and as always pay close attention to your tank in the future and remove any rebels..

As for the Midas and RD one is different in the head region and one may have more white but i do not have enough experience to make a 100% comment on these cichlids, so hopefully someone with more experience could help you there..

And a side note on large cichlids and plecos - if you only have one large fish (cichlid) and a pleco normally that cichlid will get bored and pick on the only target it has thats why i suggested placing a couple of cons in tank they are pretty scrappy and built tough..

Yep have fun deciding hehehe..

[Corax]

http://www.w3bdevil.com/forums/That-Is-Excellent-MrBurns.jpg

Cons too huh? What about a pair of Cutteri instead? Cons are, to be blunt, buttholes.. I don't want the grief really.. I know of a local source for a breeding pair of Cutteri, 3" & 4".. I figure when they breed, (the owner tells me they had to be separated due to being so prolific) the Jag will take care of the fry..

So how does this stocking sound:

1 - juvie jag - new
2 - cutteri - new
1 - peppermint pleco - existing
1 - rubber lip pleco - existing
4 - cories of mixed breeds (green, pepper, couple albinos) - existing

Hope that would work..

[Corax]

Or, an alternative stocking..

1 - juvie midas - new
2 - cutteri - new
1 - peppermint pleco - existing
1 - rubber lip pleco - existing
4 - cories of mixed breeds (green, pepper, couple albinos) - existing

I would also enjoy having some pictus cats.. Are they out of the question?

The tank also currently has some Kuhli loaches and a Dojo loach.. Am I correct in assuming that these guys would be seen as little more than yummy worms?

[Pittbull]

all sounds good but when the cichlids start gaining size and aggression your cory will be on the target hit list, so i would remove the cory's..

[Corax]

Any alternative bottom feeder suggestions?

and what about the pictus?

[Pittbull]

Pictus get pretty huge and are ich magnets if the cichlids will leave them alone should be fine but pictus needs company from their own kind an alternative would be a couple of rapheal cats but they are very elusive in hiding only to come out during complete darkness to hunt..

I forgot to tell you as well as the dojo and kuhli's would be a snack as well..

If you stick with the smaller cichlids and leave out the big ones you could get by with these smaller fins kuhli's definitely would have to go and so would the corys..

[Corax]

I'm ok with the loaches leaving, just didn't want to catch the little boogers.. My LFS has already told me they'll take anything I need to relocate. My big black angel is going to a discovery center to live in a 120g community. He should do well there..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but pictus only get 5-6", right? Raphs are cool, but they get even bigger..

[Wyomingite]

Personally i think that the 75gal would be good for one jag plus you can keep the current plecos if you obtain a juvie jag with a hit or miss incident in the future when the jag is grown, and in my opinion i think you have room for a couple of juvie male cons to offset the alone factor and as always pay close attention to your tank in the future and remove any rebels..

As for the Midas and RD one is different in the head region and one may have more white but i do not have enough experience to make a 100% comment on these cichlids, so hopefully someone with more experience could help you there..

And a side note on large cichlids and plecos - if you only have one large fish (cichlid) and a pleco normally that cichlid will get bored and pick on the only target it has thats why i suggested placing a couple of cons in tank they are pretty scrappy and built tough..

Yep have fun deciding hehehe..

Perfect advice on the pleco being the only other fish, as usual, Pitbull buddy.

The biggest difference between RDs and midas cichlids is in the jaw structure. Here' a link to an article by Paul Loiselle, a cichlid expert, that outlines the differences between the two and throws in trimacs and another Amphilophus species as well. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=106

WYite

[Corax]

Ok, so how are the behavioral differences? I know red devils can be total bullies.. Are midas the same way? I'm not opposed to a red devil's attitude, but not getting eaten alive while cleaning the tank would be a good selling point for the midas..

[Wyomingite]

Ok, so how are the behavioral differences? I know red devils can be total bullies.. Are midas the same way? I'm not opposed to a red devil's attitude, but not getting eaten alive while cleaning the tank would be a good selling point for the midas..

LOL, midas can be nasty as well. IME, the difference is six of one, half dozen of the other.

WYite

[Corax]

Ok, so the RD vs. Midas argument is pretty much personal preference.. How do the Cutteri do against either one of them? I'd rather do those instead of Convicts if possible, but I can do Cons if need be..

I'll be evacuating my existing stock tomorrow (cept for the plecos) and putting the RD/Midas & friends in this weekend..

What was the final verdict on pictus?

[Rallysman]

One of my most interesting tanks was a 110tall single specimen flowerhorn tank. The fish was loaded with personality and was drop dead gorgeous.

http://uglygreencouch.net/pics/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1682&g2_serialNumber=1

http://uglygreencouch.net/pics/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1664&g2_serialNumber=1

[evelyn80]

nice flowerhorn he is gorgoeus(spelling?)!!!

[Corax]

now isn't THAT lovely looking.. If that's a 110, that fish is friggin huge..

How does a flowerhorn figure into the midas/red devil mix? So similar, yet a different species.. How do they differ?

[Rallysman]

now isn't THAT lovely looking.. If that's a 110, that fish is friggin huge..

How does a flowerhorn figure into the midas/red devil mix? So similar, yet a different species.. How do they differ?
Their temperament is similar, but flowerhorns tend to be more territorial and aggressive. If you're going to have a 75 for a red devil, midas, or flowerhorn you might as well plan on dedicating the tank to that 1 fish. There is a chance you'll get them to live with others, but that chance is slim.

If you're wondering about the genetic makeup of the flowerhorn, well, only the person(s) who bred the fish to create the flowerhorn really know....and they won't share the secret.

[Corax]

So it is indeed a hybrid? That's sad.. So many beautiful natural fish out there, there isn't a need to brew your own. Still, they're lovely, unlike some other popular hybrid cichlids.. (parrots spring to mind.)

So I'm clear.. A midas or red devil with the hump (kok) is natural, correct?

btw, will any of these fish we've been talking about eat snails? My 75g has a nice stock of mystery and mts.. I don't mind if they want a snack, at all lol

[Rallysman]

So it is indeed a hybrid? That's sad.. So many beautiful natural fish out there, there isn't a need to brew your own. Still, they're lovely, unlike some other popular hybrid cichlids.. (parrots spring to mind.)

So I'm clear.. A midas or red devil with the hump (kok) is natural, correct?

btw, will any of these fish we've been talking about eat snails? My 75g has a nice stock of mystery and mts.. I don't mind if they want a snack, at all lol

Do a bit of research before bashing hybrids:). The problem isn't the fish, it's the people. There is nothing wrong with selling a hybrid as a hybrid. If more people accepted them others would be willing to correctly label them. Flowerhorns are just the obvious tip of the iceburg. I'll leave it at that since this could easily turn into a hybrid debate, which would steer your thread in the wrong direction.

A midas will develop a larger nuchal hump than a red devil (tpically), but both can naturally have it.
Here's something else that might make you cringe....It's very rare to find a midas or red devil in a fish store. Most of them are a mix between the two. The only way to be sure You're getting a pure fish is to buy from a reputable breeder or get one that's wild caught. Just food for thought since you like "pure" fish:)

[Corax]

You misunderstand.. If 2 fish happen to get together and do the deed, that's fine.. It's when man gets involved with syringes and microscopes that I object..

[Rallysman]

You misunderstand.. If 2 fish happen to get together and do the deed, that's fine.. It's when man gets involved with syringes and microscopes that I object..

Flowerhorns are just crosses of fish that'll do it on their own in captivity. It's the combination of those fish that we don't know.

[Corax]

Then I have no problem with them..

So you think that a RD or midas shoudl be single specimen in a 75g huh? Even without plecos/catfish?

[Rallysman]

Then I have no problem with them..

So you think that a RD or midas shoudl be single specimen in a 75g huh? Even without plecos/catfish?
Plecos should be ok as long as they won't fit in the fish's mouth. Catfish will be hit and miss depending on the species. Pictus will probably end up toast.

[Corax]

unfortunately, my plecos are a peppermint (similar to a gold nugget, cept with white spots.. had him about a year, and he's still 4" or so..) and a rubberlip (a little bigger, but still not a lot of potential)..

Maybe a larger plec is in order? Any suggestion for a 12"ish plec that isn't a common? Think dots and stripes, if possible..

[Rallysman]

Can't think of any plecos that wouldn't create more of a mess than they would take care of. Have you considered some larger cichlids that get great color and don't have quite as much attitude? Something like a synspylum, loiselli, argentia, or perhaps a pearsei?

[Corax]

Looking those up rght after typing this..

I'm not into plecos for cleaning purposes. I just love plecos. Same with catfish.

[Rallysman]

if you're looking it up I spelled synspilum and argentea wrong lol.

[Corax]

I looked those up.. Did you mean "argentea"? If so, those are interesting looking.. Kind of plain though.. Anything else similar to a RD?

edit: lol, I noticed ;)

[Corax]

What about a Vieja zonata? I can't find a decent profile on them, but through some youtube clicks, I found a video and they look pretty cool..

[Pittbull]

Sorry buddy i was at work when i was talking to you earlier but cool so you have decided to go Midas or RD aye man like was said by rallysman when your Midas and or RD get big they will not tolerate another fish in its tank and the only other pleco that i have had before that gets pretty big and has a nasty temper is the sailfin pleco..

Man i wish i new your were optional to those Loisellei cichlids i just got rid of 4 juvies tonight to make room for my new arrivals lamp ocellatus gold shellies and the loisellei were F1 rusty wessel caught the parents while on a fish collecting trip and gave us a few to see what grows the fastest on different diets..

On the Pictus issue for some reason i was thinking Pimelodidae family which there are a few of them with the pictus in this family as well, so if you do go the smaller cutteri route than i would say a group of 3 pim pictus would be ok but not with the bigger cichlids like Midas or RD..

Later buddy..

[Corax]

no biggie, the Loisellei don't do much for me..

I find this guy very interesting though..

cvMVKh_2uGU

[Pittbull]

he is pretty cool looking man..

[Rallysman]

no biggie, the Loisellei don't do much for me..

I find this guy very interesting though..

cvMVKh_2uGU

Which do you find interesting? The yellow/gold fish is either a Lois or a Fredi, the other looks like grammodes.

[Pittbull]

The yellow one its pretty cool in all

[Corax]

The yellow one, and the video says it's a Fredi..

[Corax]

Change of plan.. The time came to pull the existing fish, and my daughter decided she wants to keep the dojo loach.. That means, no RD, no midas, no etc.. Back to the smaller selections..

So, how would convicts handle plecos, loaches and cories hanging around? any other interesting 4-6" options?

[Corax]

any opinions on Herotilapia multispinosa (rainbow cichlids) ?

[Pittbull]

Rainbows are cool and should mesh nicely in that setup, convicts should be fine as long as you dont have a pair, they would deliver beat downs if a pair of cons decide to breed in your setup so i would stick to gender only cons in a community setup..

[Corax]

and what about a breeding pair of Cutteri?

[Corax]

Well, the deed is done.. My 75g is now home to 4 cutteri.. 2 breeding adults (male = 5", female = 4") and 2 juveniles. Plus I still have my original bottom feeders. I also added a mixed school of juvenile cories.. A local breeder decided to get out of the hobby, and I was in the right place at the right time.. I've never had a school of 20 cories before, but lemme tell ya, it's coooool seeing all the mixed sizes and types going around together..

As I type this, mom and dad are currently clearing a spot in the gravel and circling each other.. Can't imagine what for..

So far, no interest at all in my plecos or loaches.. Hoping for the best.

[Corax]

New thread.. Thanks for all the advice!

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177602

[OhioOilMan]

I would personally go with some african rift lake cich's they can get relatively large in a home aquarium ! I love mine!