A few questions

[Shikkapow]

I have a 55 gallon brackish tank stocked with 3 archers, 3 mollies,4 glass fish, a spotted green puffer, and a crawfish.
I have a continuious problem with brown algae, and an on again off again problem with green slime (only way to describe it) algae.

I try to keep the nitrates below 30 ppm, but nothing I do will help with the algae. I dont want to use chemicals if possible, but is there any other way to combat the algae?
I am trying, with marginal success, to grow java fern and java moss in the tank to steal the nitrates, but they are not doing too well. Is there any other type of plant that will do well in a brack tank?
What kind of snails will live in a brackish tank, that are big enough to avoid being a snack for the puffer? I have a breeding tank (my 20 gallon fresh) stocked with malaysian trumpets that I use for feeding the puff, and they dont live long enough to do a thing..

any help is appreciated..

[Pufferpunk]

Trumpet snails are the worst kind of snail to feed a puffer. Their shells are very hard & will break their teeth.

I have the same problem with all my puffer tanks. I think it is caused by their messy eating. How ofter do you do water changes? Do you clean the gravel? I just scrape the glass at every water change & bleach the ornaments a few times a year.

I'm afraid your crawfish may become pufferfood at some time. I feed my GS whole ones (dead).

[Shikkapow]

Thanks for the info on the trumpets, I found that out through other sources today also.. I have a bunch of other thin shelled snails that he crushes right through. ill limit it to them.

I am quite lazy and was looking for another route than manual scubbing :D :D
oh well if thats what it takes then thats what it takes..
I do a 20% change every 10 dys or so, gravel vac (crushed coral) at every change ( the tank is messy with the archers and puffer)

the crawfish is 4 times the size of the puffer, if he gets hungry and tries to snack on the crawfish, im going to be out a puff :(

thanks for the info.. know anyting about plants?

[Pufferpunk]

There anen't too many that can stand BW. I think just java fern & moss.

[Shikkapow]

Yeah thats all that I have found too, besides mangroves....

How big are your GS??

[Pufferpunk]

They're about 5" now & very round. they are living with a new Ceylon roomate about 3" They were really freaking out whan I added him. They actually seemed afraid of him. :eek: Everyone seems to be getting along fine now.

[Sharyl C]

Depending on your lighting - mangroves would be a good possibility for nitrate removers.

you may also want to check the nitrates in your source water. unless you are using r/o water to mix clean saltwater up - your water changes maybe doing little to lower your NO3.

[Shikkapow]

Originally posted by Pufferpunk
They're about 5" now & very round. they are living with a new Ceylon roomate about 3"

5"!!!!!?? WOW . I have had one for 6-8 months now and he is only 1.5" and hasnt grown a bit 'cept ROUNDER of course :D he hasn't grown a bit lenghtwise..


Sharyl., my tap is 0 nitrate reading ( 3 seperate tests during different seasons) and it seems to drop my nitrates significantly. r/o is expensive here and not worth the hassle/cash. I was just loking for some type of plant to steal nitrates from the algae

what type of lighting/setup do you need for mangroves? they need direct sunlight correct?

[Pufferpunk]

They were about 2" when I bought them about 8 monthe sgo. What are you feeding yours?

[Shikkapow]

Mostly blood worms ( biggest staple of his diet) weekly mix up of frozen brine shrimp(im afraid of diseases from the live ones) , weekly dosage of ghost shrimp, crickets ( he steals them from the archers) the occasional meal worm (stolen from the chameleon's dinner) and every other day some pond snails out of my fresh tank ( no more trumpets..Thanks for the tip) and he does eat some flakes that I feed to the mollies

oh and he gets "fin tip of Mollie" :D about once every other week
he never stops eating and is in a perpetual state of looking like a golfball

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe he's a "runt". There may be a very slight chance that he could have internal parasites. You could try treating him w/Discomed.

[Shikkapow]

besides being small, what other signs are there of internal parasites?

[Pufferpunk]

Usually eating a lot, but still being very skinny. I have been reading posts on other sites. I am wondering about the differences of some spotted puffer. See:

http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html

Maybe mine are green puffers ( t. fluviatilis) http://puffernet.tripod.com/nigroviridis.html & yours are spotted puffers (t. nigroviridis) http://puffernet.tripod.com/fluviatilis.html, or maybe not..

I'm really confused, because I can't tell the difference. It says that they both grow to 6", but maybe one kind grows slower than the other. :confused: It does mention that one is light BW & the other is heavy BW. I wish I could tell what I have a little better, because I've been keeping them on the heavy side.

[RTR]

Pufferpunk - Don't you have Ebert? the site you ref is incorrect. That is not news.

T. fluviatis is the Ceylon puffer. The name has been used in error by many authors for the GSP.

Edit: Occam's razor - the reason you cannot tell the difference is that there is no difference in the puffers pictured there, they are the same fish, all T. nigroviridis, all GSPs

Please don't help spread confused and erroneous information - you know how jumbled puffer ID is anyway.

[Pufferpunk]

I thought you might chime in on that. I got this info from Puffernet. I won't use that site for references anymore! I just deleted it from my Favorites. I had always thought the two puffers were the same, t. Nigroviridis.

[Shikkapow]

That was the same site that i used to ID my puff...
I looked at other sites:
http://www.pufferfish.co.uk/aquaria/species/pufferfish/types/ceylon.htm
http://chunkypuff.net/projectpuffer/t_ceylon.htm

and from those pictures I have the Green Spotted puffer, not the Ceylon.. I found a bunch of sites where they talk about the ceylon being the japanese delicacy that can kill you if not prepares properly... they would have to eat about 3 dozen of mine to get a meal :D

OK well i guess he isnt malnoursihed and undersized....
thanks for tipping me off about puffernet.. deleted as well

[Pufferpunk]

I think it would be pretty hard to confuse the two; green spotted & ceylon. I just got a ceylon & it's in w/my GS. They don't look anything alike. Ceylons are more likely to be confused w/figure 8s. I'v found them mixed in together in a F8 tank for the same $ ($7). Most lfs don't know the difference. Too bad the one I bought the ceylon from did, it was $40! :eek: It was worth it for a larger one (3").

Robert, I will definately refer to Ebert 1st for now on. It seems that I'm forever apologizing for something... I guess I'll always be learning.

[RTR]

That site is not without good info - the person obviously cares a lot about about puffers, so it is not to be deleted for inability to trace puffer names - until Ebert came out and gave us a common ground for reference, I had given up on puffer nomenclature unless I was willing to go to original sources (as Shannon does regularly). That site was set well before Ebert came out and has not been brought in line with his monograph - which takes pains to specify that it is no guarantee on the taxonomy. The whole family is a disaster on names, and no other ref but Ebert give us at least most of the puffers with names we can use. But his common names are a disaster - "Green Puffer" for both GSP and Ceylon? Give me a break! Imagine what it would be if we all adopted that!

Ian chickens out on Ceylons, no species given. But with Ebert we can say the fish "best" labeled T. nigroviridis (Ian labels as T. nigrifilis), GSP. Or the fish best labeled T. fluviatilis, Ceylon puffer.

T. palembangensis has been applied to most of the common puffers in the trade by somebody, and is less common in the trade than even the Ceylon.

I do agree that the Ceylon is most likely confused with the Figure-8, but they really are not very alike. Getting Ceylon for Figure-8 prices would be a steal.

[Pufferpunk]

Why is it that Shikkapow's fish is growing so much slower than mine? Could it be a "runt"? She seems to be feeding it well.

[RTR]

Space, water quality, feeding, threats or lack thereof, and the thing I believe you mentioned and which terrifies us all - internal parasites. Gut parasites can be treated, true internals are untouchable. I have for years suspected their presence in fish which failed to thrive.

Other than some of the dwarfs, we are dealing with entirely wild-caught fish. There are significant risks of roundworms and similar always with these wildlings.

[Pufferpunk]

Discomed won't help with internal parasites? What's the difference between gut & internal parasites?

[RTR]

Camallanus is the typical gut roundworm, tapeworms are also gut inhabitants. They live inside the gut, and are generally treatable.

The sort of roundworms seen in the recent thread on the puffer list, or the thread at Tom's Place with the pics, are a different matter. I don't think they can be treated without killing the fish. They do not live insdie the gut, but in the body cavity, under the skin, around/in/between the muscles. If you do kill them, the dead worms will kill the fish by toxicity.

[Shikkapow]

Originally posted by Pufferpunk
Why is it that Shikkapow's fish is growing so much slower than mine? Could it be a "runt"? She seems to be feeding it well.
SHE??!! wow do I really sound like a chick?? lol

*()(*^$$_ i had a whole long post and my comp dumped it..:(

anyways short and sweet.. im still confused on what puffer i have ( i now realize its not a ceylon, my mistake, but didnt understand when I posted b4)
I still am all mixed up and from what I am reading from you guys t. nigroviridis= GSP and t. fluviatilis is Ceylon?... fluviatilis looks like a figure 8 not a "spotted green, green spotted, green" (should be named "commonly confused puffer") ...correct?

I was going to link a site with pictures that might help ID my fish, but It has the t. nigroviridis looking just like the t. fluviatilis, justa slightly differ looking body shape (torpedo vs baloon) but identical markings. :confused::confused:

going by what you guys a re telling me, I have a t. nigroviridis.. I have no way of confirming this because like you said every website is diffferent. different pictures, different sizes, and different markings. on that note.... who is Ebert, and where can I get his/her book?

heres the link anyways.. ignore the sceintific names, and look at the pics. mine looks like the bottom pair of fish.. only due to the rounder body, and not the torpedo body but as you see the markings are identical.....
http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html

[Pufferpunk]

Dear Sir, sorry for the mistaken gender ;) & for confusing you on puffer identification. I should have looked in Dr Ebert's book 1st, before misinforming you through a website with faulty info. Both of those photos are of the same puffer, t nigroviridis. It doesn't matter what shape it is. T fluviatis is a ceylon puffer.

Dr Klaus Ebert's book is: The Puffers of Fresh and Brackish Waters. The book regularly sells for over $50. I think I paid about $36. I can't remember where.

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/pufferreview.shtml

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?

Here I found it for $30 http://www.fishpost.com/drystock.html

[Pufferpunk]

Shikkapow, I was just reading Robert's review of Dr Ebert's book & came across a possible explination of your puffers slow growth:

the author describes the Common Spotted Puffer, Tetraodon nigroviridis, (which he calls the Green Puffer) kept in freshwater as being only half the size as the same species kept in brackish or marine water.

Is your puffer in BW?

[Shikkapow]

Originally posted by Pufferpunk
Dear Sir, sorry for the mistaken gender ;)
Sir??? thats as bad as the other thing lol..
don worry about it just busting your chops :D

yeah the pics were confusing.. didnt really make sense
thanks for the links to the book, ill make it an after xmas gift(along with the new 45 gal, hood and new fish, a filter and umm all sorts of other stuff for me )

The puff is in brackish water kept between .002 and .008 but usually between .4 and .6 I bought it out of a brackish tank at the LFS which is kept at .004...

thanks for the info