Ideal Newbie Setup?

[Harlock]

Hi there! I'm a first time poster here, but have been reading voraciously since yesterday evening. What a great site, and thanks for taking the time to help me. A wee bit of background: I'm not entirely a newbie, but my tank experience is limited to a 10g FW tropical tank that I kept for ~4 years and another that I kept simultaneously for ~2 years. The bad news is that was more than a decade ago (ew, I just dated myself terribly).

So, in light of that I have a son now who is fascinated with fish and a wife who actually suggested we get a tank started in our living room (I know, some of you fellows are envious!) Now the conundrum, where do I start?

I know I want at least a 29g tank and perhaps some 10g tanks as fry/quarantine tanks. I have a custom built stand already that is capable of holding two tens side by side on three shelves (I kept venomous snakes before we had children) so a stand is already in place. I could also spring for a new stand if I wanted to expand.

When I had tanks before, I simply had undergravel filters with those pumps that blew bubbles, a thermometer, tank hood with light, plastic plants, some cool rocks with hiding holes and a heater. I didn't have Bio-Wheels, Power Heads etc. I kept neon tetras, an African Butterfly cichlid, a pair of guppies and an angelfish. I suppose luck played into it back then, because the fish seemed to thrive and I wasn't very educated and there was certainly no internet. My interest waned when I reached High School and extracuricular activities began to dominate my time, so as my fish passed away, I simply didn't replace them.

So, my main questions are:

1. Is the bio-wheel and power head setup the "only" way to go these days? For a fry/quarantine type 10g tank would undergravel and pump filtration be sufficient?

2. How difficult are live plants and what sort of maintenance do they require? Are there good beginner plants?

3. I know for a fact that I want a number of neon tetras, what sort of other (maybe bigger?) fish are complimentary to them and would work well in a 29g FW? It appears from my reading that mollies and guppies would really rather like a bit of brackish water, so I don't think the neons would appreciate that.

4. If I went with a 55g tank instead am I looking at a whole lot more maintenance, and also, what is the approximate difference in price between a 29g and 55g to start up? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and then have the poor fish suffer because I misjudged my budget for this. Keep in mind, I basically need everything; aquarium, hood, lights, fish, plants, rocks, wood, substrate, filtration, pumps, hose, net, water testing supplies, food, thermometer and heater (am I forgetting anything?)

5. Can anyone suggest a good online source for aquariums and supplies? We do have a couple of stores locally that have fish and supplies, but I do want to shop around.

6. Does anyone have a site that lists suggested FW set-ups and approximate costs just so I can toss some figures at the wife?

I already know I want to go with fishless cycling (that's really brilliant!) but I am just havnig questions about the undergravel "bubble" type thing vs power heads and such. Oh, and if I were to start with the former, how difficult is it to switch to a bio-wheel and powerhead or all of that? Whew! So many questions, I know, but thanks for your input.

By the way, if you simply agree with what someone says, please say so, I'm looking for as many opinions as I can get, including ditto. Thanks!

[russjet]

firstly tank size the bigger the better you will have more choice of fish and will probably want to get a bigger one later if you dont

try this site for good fish to go with neons i got my list there and i built my tank around my neons
it doesnt list cost but does include tank size and other stuff like that

http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106community1.htm

i have a fluval 4plus canister filter and it works great for me

any size tank is ok if you get yourself a python to help you with your waterchanges

that is as far as i can help you with your questions

hope this helps

juliette

and welcome to the forum too :D

[MikeO]

I use to keep fish too, and just getting back into it now, so like you I am in the same position with my knowledge being rusty, hence I been posting in the newbie area too.
I will probably get some smack down here what I am going to say about the bio-wheel, but here goes

1) I have put both a UG filter and an overflow filter in, I never had luck with the bio-wheel filters in the past, they just would get stuck and stop spinning, so I personally would not waste the money on one.
2) Don’t know on plants, I also am new to the plants area, good luck with those, mine seem to be starting to take to the tank, still no fish but they will get there soon (I hope soon, I would like to have fish in there before 2005, but I fear I might have to want a bit longer)

I am doing the fishless cycle now, I have a friend that said he would do it but not trust it and suggested adding 2 fish at a time, I am not sure which way I want to go, The first time I set up a tank I was in middle school (12 years ago) and did no setup, at that time I did not know all the stuff I know now (I got lucky then I had no problems and did not loss fish, but I will *not* trust luck this time) I am tempted to get all the fish I want after the fishless cycle is finished.

My oldest fish I ever had was a Red Eye Tetra (I got them to live about 5 to 6 years normally, but not 100% sure since I don’t know how old they were when I got them) who lived to be 7 (I do know this one was 7 since it was born in my tank, the only one that ever survived their parents eating them)

Also this is the first time I ever checked for ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates (never heard of testing this stuff till I found this site last week. All I did before was pH)

[happychem]

Go with a 55g if you can afford it. The amount of maintenance will be roughly the same but if you decide at some point to add more light for plants, then you've got a tank that fits a standard 4ft bulb.

Try www.bigalsonline.com for supplies, I've used the Canadian version for dry goods (apparently the american one has fish?), but the american version is much cheaper than the Canadian one, even after exchange!

You'll definitely want a "Python" for water changes, it's a positively brilliant invention!

Go cannister filter if you can afford it, if not, Aquaclear is a great filter. There's a thread around here on HOB (hang on back) filters that would be worth reading and may help you decide.

No, biowheels aren't necessary, but unplanted tank folks seem to swear by them. I've heard that they're noisy though, which is a deal breaker for me. That's the same dif. between powerhead and airpump driven UGF's (undergravel filters) is noise, air driven is noisy.

I dunno about setup prices though, you could check big als, but I'd imagine that shipping would be a killer! Walmart has some pretty inexpensive tanks, and if you were going tank only and adding your own filter and heater then you wouldn't really be sacrificing quality either.

[Indigo]

1. Is the bio-wheel and power head setup the "only" way to go these days? For a fry/quarantine type 10g tank would undergravel and pump filtration be sufficient?

for a fry tank, a simple sponge filter would work well. You can make your own (There's a link to instructions how to build one somewhere around here) fairly easily, or pick one up. For a 29g, a HOB filter like an AquaClear or Penguin or a cannister would work just fine. HOBs are comparitively cheapter. Both have their pros and cons.



2. How difficult are live plants and what sort of maintenance do they require? Are there good beginner plants?
There are LOTS of hard to kill east beginner plants. Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias, Crypts all do well, even in fairly lowlight tanks. Check out www.plantgeek.com, then go to plant guide, and you can look at more plants than you can shake a stick at. Basically you can have plants for just about any setup. You can make it complicated with adding ferts, CO2, etc, or keep it simple with easy plants.



3. I know for a fact that I want a number of neon tetras, what sort of other (maybe bigger?) fish are complimentary to them and would work well in a 29g FW? It appears from my reading that mollies and guppies would really rather like a bit of brackish water, so I don't think the neons would appreciate that.

My fish compatibility skills sorta suck so I'll just leave this... dwarf gouramis, a male betta, small pleco, otos, other tetras, rasboras, corys should live happily with neons.



4. If I went with a 55g tank instead am I looking at a whole lot more maintenance, and also, what is the approximate difference in price between a 29g and 55g to start up? I don't want to bite off more than I can chew and then have the poor fish suffer because I misjudged my budget for this. Keep in mind, I basically need everything; aquarium, hood, lights, fish, plants, rocks, wood, substrate, filtration, pumps, hose, net, water testing supplies, food, thermometer and heater (am I forgetting anything?)

I don't think a 55g would be more maintenance, perhaps larger volumes of water changes. Its harder to make bad mistakes in a bigger tank. An ammonia spike that would be lethal in a small tank would be barely noticed in a big tank, because of the amount of water diluting pollutants. Also the smaller the tank, the less options you have with stocking.



5. Can anyone suggest a good online source for aquariums and supplies? We do have a couple of stores locally that have fish and supplies, but I do want to shop around.

uhhh I really only know Canadian sites www.mops.ca and www.jlaquatics.com



6. Does anyone have a site that lists suggested FW set-ups and approximate costs just so I can toss some figures at the wife?

I can tell you what I've spent, it'll be in Canadian dollars though -
25g tank kit - came with tank, hood with 20w light, some plastic plants, stick on thermometer, HOB Aquaclear 200 with sponge and carbon, crappy hang-on heater, water conditioner, general range pH kit, net - grand total $197 plus taxes.

aquarium gravel - roughly 25 lbs for $60+ can't quite remember, but I'm not using it all either.

bought some more fake plants, rock, log from walmart - $20

test kits - got the hagen master kit with NH3, NO2, gH, kH, 2 ranges of pH for roughly $45, then bought NO3 for $12 later on.

bought real plants - bought a couple clumps of java moss, 3 clumps of some sort of sword, ambulia of some sort, anubias, water sprite (i think) = $30ish

fish - no clue anymore what they cost - $60ish total?

upgraded heater to a submersible ebo-jager - $35 plus shipping.

other misc. stuff - 2 2g buckets + gravel vac from walmart = $15

food - no clue any more lol

So um yeah, I'll just stop there... hope this helps a little

[Richer]

Welcome to the board!

1.) Bio-wheels work fine, but they are not the only way to go. Some people like them, some people are neutral, some people don't like them. Although they are effective at what they do, I don't use them. If you want a HOB filter take a look at the Aquaclear line of HOB (hang on back) filters. They are a good, and cost effective filter.
Although I don't use Underground filters (UGFs) anymore, I still think that are still quite effective at their job. Though a few people will tell you that they are outdated, I still think they have a place in this hobby. UGFs just require a little bit more maintanence on the user's part (ie. more good gravel vacs) to prevent crude buildup under the UGF plates. Also do a bit of research on Reverse Underground Filters (RUGFs). IMHO, RUGFs are better than UGFs.
Also look at canister filters. A few brands that come to mind are Eheim, Filstar and Fluvals. I've had good experiences with all these brands. They provide a lot of space of biological filtration media... though they do lack somewhat in the area of mechanical filtration. A pre-filter over the intake of the canister would do wonders in terms of extending the time period between canister maintanence.

I would personally put multiple filters on any tank larger than 20 gallons. For a 29 gallon tank, I would probably go with:
2 x Aquaclear (AC) 150s or,
1 x AC 150 and a small canister
etc.
Having multiple small filters (rather than one big one) gives you a failsafe in case one filter breaks down. By rotating your filter cleanings between your filters you also minimize the small chance of accidently killing your bacterial colonies when you clean out a filter. BTW, depending on fish load and equipment, you generally want a filtration rate of around 10x your tank volumn. Forget the tank ratings on the side of those boxes, they don't mean much.

2.) Live plants are not difficult to keep if you do it correctly from the beginning. Doing it incorrectly can lead to algae blooms, and lots of hair pulling (both the algae and the top of your head type :D ). I would suggest browsing through the plant forum for starting advice. There are quite a few posts in there with some very decent advice.

3.) Seeing how nearly all mollies and guppies available nowadays are tank raised, they don't really need brackish water. I've raised mollies and guppies in my FW tanks with no salt, and they all bred like crazy.
I can't really suggest a fish for your tank as its all personal preference. I suggest you go onto online fish stores, fish profile sites, your LFS, etc. and see what you like. Make a note of it, and get back to us and we can tell you whether or not the fish will work for your tank.

4.) Maintanence on a 55 gallon tank shouldn't be any more complex than a 29g. It will take a few more minutes because of the extra water volumn, and the extra gravel vacuuming, but it shouldn't be too noticable. Since a 55g tank is more or less double that of 29g, just take all the equipment from a 29g tank and double it. Double the heating, filtration, etc. That should give you a good general idea on how much a 55g will cost you equipment wise. If you can do it, I would go with the 55g. It will give you a heck of a lot more flexibility than a 29g, and could save you from some mistakes (ie. accidently feeding too much). It also allows you to stock more/larger fish than a 29g would allow.

5.) Unless you are building a custom tank, I would go locally for a tank. Try www.bigalsonline.com for dry goods, there are also a few other online vendors around (though quite a few of them cater to saltwater setups, they do have equipment that will work quite well with freshwater setups).

6.) I don't have any figures I can toss at you. I think you're better off checking out the prices online and putting together a rough estimate that way.

The bubble thing you are referring to is call an air lift. If you go this route, it wouldn't be difficult at all to switch to powerheads at a future date. However, I advise against this course of action. Powerheads aren't that expensive, I would go with powerheads right from the beginning.

HTH
-Rich

[Harlock]

Great input folks! Keep it coming. This is invaluable for me and I promise your time is not being wasted as I am reading and mulling it all over. And thanks to everyone that is taking the time to explain the acronyms. HOB, etc. I'm able to translate more posts now in other threads!

[Harlock]

Well, I went to the LFS this morning and first of all, I have to say, they overcharge. Heh, there's news, I know, but seriously, the master test kit at Big Al's online for $34.99 is $99.99 in my LFS. That's a big frelling difference. Anyway, I did check out some tanks and power filters and I had some questions along those lines.

First of all, I know I want to do a fishless cycle and while reading the Penguin Biowheel Powerfilter box it said the biowheel kills ammonia and nitrites on contact... won't that sort of be counter-productive to cycling? Also, to any advocates of biowheels, why are they better than an Aquacler powerfilter? How often must one replace a biowheel... ballpark it.

They had some aquatic plants that looked spiffy. And, I had to go and look at fish. Now I am torn. Instead of a 29 I really think I'll be going with a 55 gallon aquarium at this point because I can afford it and the benefits of a bigger tank are just too neat to pass up. Would 2-3 dwarf flame gouramis go well with 5-6 bleeding heart Tetras, 5-6 Coryadoras and 5-6 rosy barbs? Would that be an overstocked tank? If not could I get away with a trio of Lyretails in that? I know I want an active commnuity tank so I am looking for opinions.

Also, I'm liking Richer's ideas on redundancy. Makes a lot of sense to me. So, with a 55g I was thinking 2 Aquaclear 300 filters would be up to snuff. I'd also use two thermometers, if that sounds decent... that way if one malfunctions or quits, I still have another one on the other side of the tank. Oh, or are fish like reptiles and like to thermoregulate? Meaning, would fish prefer one heat source then enjoy the gradual cooling gradient away from said heat source? In that case, I may buy two smaller thermometers and keep them on the same side of the tank. I'll add more questions to this thread as I think of them.

Actually, this thread could turn out to be rather funny if I sort of journal being a newbie and jumping right in. Thanks for reading and for helping answer my questions.

[happychem]

Sounds like you're on the right track!

Your proposed stock looks good. You could probalby add the lyretails as well and not be overstocked, but then I probably wouldn't because I like to stock on the light side, it's better for the fish, easier on maintenance and algae fighting/nutrient control. But then, my biggest tank is a 33g (it was as big a tank as I could afford/convince the wife to let me get, at the time ;) ), so I don't really have a good feel for a 55g tank.

Two filters at either end is great. I don't know the rating on the AC300, but my AC200 thinks that it's good enough for a 50g, so I'd guess that 2 AC300's would be just about perfect.

The biowheel's "killing ammonia on contact" line is just marketing, the way that it "kills" the ammonia is by providing ideal conditions for bacterial growth.

Go with 2 heaters whose combined wattage is sufficient for the tank and place them at either end, you want constant temp. through the tank. The idea with the double heater setup is that both together are enough to heat the tank, if one fails "on" it's not strong enough to boil you fish, but if one fails "off" you've still got a little wiggle room to get a new heater. Buy a good heater: Tronic, Ebo Jager are good names, they don't cost much more than the cheap ones and are far more reliable. Go fully submersable so that you can hide it better, besides, heat rises.

[Harlock]

Excellent, my master plan is coming to fruition. It's not an evil master plan mind you... Anyhow, here's another question:

I live in West Texas. We're classified as a succulent desert, which means it gets darn hot in the summer. I do have central air conditioning, so in the summer I don't expect the area where the tank would be to go above 80-81 degress farenheit. Would that be a problem and if so, how on earth does one cool off 55 gallons of water efficiently and without a lot of cost?

[happychem]

80-81 is fine. In the summer here it doesn't get terribly hot, but with no AC and afternoon sun in the windows my livingroom tank spent about a month and a half around or above 86oF (that's the top of the scale on the lcd thermometer). The fish did fine except for one rummynose, but I did lose all my java fern (it grew back after the temperature cooled) and the bacopa suffered. None of the plants did very well, but most hung in fine.

Else, I've heard that you can freeze 2L pop bottles half-3/4 full of water and float them in the tank to cool it down.

Oh, now I remember. The two test kits you were looking at, are they the same? Big al's is routinely cheaper, but that's really startling! At that price you could buy two and sell one to a buddy to cover the cost of the one! Anyway, here's what you need, the rest is extras that may or may not be necessary:
NH3 (ammonia)
NO2 (nitrite)
NO3 (nitrate)
pH
KH
maybe GH
PO4 is a bonus
few people put much trust in the Fe (Iron) tests.

[Harlock]

Yes, I am absolutely certain they are the same testing kit. We are supposedly getting a Petco here soon, so maybe a little competition will force this other outfit to taper down the markup. And trust me, I was startled too. I think my exact words were unprintable.

[russjet]

are you a farscape fan by any chance

[Harlock]

Heh, yes, yes I am. Hence the frelling comment above. :)

[ArkyLady]

I didn't really read through all the replies, so most of what I'll say is probably repeating others :) Welcome to AC! Glad you found this place. I know it's been a lifesaver for me (and my fishies!).


1. Is the bio-wheel and power head setup the "only" way to go these days? For a fry/quarantine type 10g tank would undergravel and pump filtration be sufficient?

Bio-wheels aren't the only way to go, but I do like mine. I've not had any issues with the bio-wheels stopping or anything ... they do slow down after they get seasoned, but as long as I swish them out in old tank water now and then (every 2-3 months or so) and get any algae and gunk that's building up on them off they're fine. They also will not "kill ammonia on contact", well they kinda do, but not until the bacteria that lives in them is able to consume all the ammonia being produced in the tank. Anyway, they won't hinder your fishless cycle in any way.

What I do for my quarantine tank is keep a sponge filter going in one of my established tanks so it stays seeded with bacteria, then whenever I need to setup my quarantine tank I just take it out and set it up then throw the sponge filter in there and it's instantly cycled and ready to go. You can do the same thing by just keeping extra filter media in your filters on your main tank to transfer when needed.


2. How difficult are live plants and what sort of maintenance do they require? Are there good beginner plants?

I'm fairly new to live plants also, but they aren't difficult. I went low tech (no CO2 injection or heavy lighting). Plants are very beneficial to your tank and definitely worth the effort if it's something you're interested in. I'd suggest starting out low tech and go from there. If you decide to go planted, the lights that come with a tank at the LFS won't be strong enough even for low light plants (need at least around 1 watt per gallon or WPG), so if you can purchase just a bare tank with no hood you can just get glass canopies to cover it and put lights above that (shop lights or whatever you can find at the hardware store). If you're handy, you can even build your own canopy to mount the lights in and save a lot of money that way. Setting up a planted tank can be on the expensive side if you go all out, but you can do it cheaply also. Read up in the planted tank forum, lots of great info there.


3. I know for a fact that I want a number of neon tetras, what sort of other (maybe bigger?) fish are complimentary to them and would work well in a 29g FW? It appears from my reading that mollies and guppies would really rather like a bit of brackish water, so I don't think the neons would appreciate that.

I love keeping bettas in my community tanks, but I'm pretty partial to them :D Many people think they can't be kept with anything else, but they do rather well with most community fish, with a few exceptions of course. Another fish I've started keeping recently are Endler's livebearers. They are related to the guppy, but are a bit smaller and quite colorful.


4. If I went with a 55g...

5. Can anyone suggest a good online source for aquariums and supplies? We do have a couple of stores locally that have fish and supplies, but I do want to shop around.

I like www.bigalsonline.com and www.drsfostersmith.com for buying supplies. I've also bought fish from people at www.aquabid.com (like eBay for fish!) and I hear great things about www.liveaquaria.com


I am doing the fishless cycle now, I have a friend that said he would do it but not trust it and suggested adding 2 fish at a time, I am not sure which way I want to go

There is no reason not to trust a fishless cycle. The process is identical to doing a cycle with fish, only you don't have to deal with doing excessive water changes (sometimes twice daily!) to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down so they don't harm/kill your fish. Both ways you're simply adding ammonia to the tank, it's just easier and less work to do it without fish and if you screw something up all your fish don't die :D


I am tempted to get all the fish I want after the fishless cycle is finished.

That is exactly what you're supposed to do! That's the main thing I love about fishless cycling is that once the cycle is done I can fully stock my tank in a single day. If after a fishless cycle you only added 2-3 fish, then within a few days (week? not sure how long) all the excess bacteria would die off and your tank would only be cycled to handle 2-3 fish worth of waste. Then when you added a few more fish, you'd see small ammonia/nitrIte spikes or mini-cycles until the bacteria multiplied enough to catch up again.

Hope that all makes sense. Glad to see both of you getting back into the hobby.

[Harlock]

Thanks ArkyLady et al. Well, The wife nixed the 55 gallon. I am heartbroken, but only slightly. For the room in which I wanted to place the tank, the tank is too big... I was informed. Feh! Fine, I talked her into a 37 gallon as it is only 4 inches taller than the 29g and just as wide and just as long. Also, I do happen to have one 20 Gallon Long left over from a liazrd we used to house. It's an All Glass Aquarium rated for fish, not a critter cage, so I'll end up with two tanks instead of one and will still have at least one 10 gallon for a fry/quarantine tank.

So, my questions are, what size heaters do I need for a 37g and a 20g? Keep in mind I'll be doing the double heater thing, two smaller heaters submerged on either end of the tank. I'll have to lower my fish load of course, but I can handle that. The 20 long may end up a community tank and that 37g just might be a showcase tank... have to see what hapens there.

Also, people keep mentioning sponge filters -- I can see them on Big Al's... how exactly do they work? Are they powered? Do they run off of a powerhead or... what?

And yes, I do feel silly, but I have to learn somehow... Thanks

[aquanewb]

Hi Harlock

I too am in the same boat as you so to speak. I kept an aquarium in my youth but now the kids are into fish and the wife said yes to the living room. First I hit the net for basic info on what is even out there at this point. I located a good deal IMHO on a 72 gal bowfront with heater and a Fluval 404 and whatever else he had. ($650)

Well back to the internet and found this place. (As an aside this site is a good example of how great the internet is for sharing information. I have learned about the great fishless cycle and all manner of proper fish keeping.) Anyway back to what I have gotten thus far.... I picked up 50 lbs of gravel. ($65) I found that I was given a 100 Watt Tronic heater and need more power to heat this bathtub so I found the Hydor ETH 300 In-Line heater! I dislike having to see the stuff in the tank so I picked it up at drfostersmith today with a net and some airstones. ($68) I found that he had a bulb installed that is used for SW fish called an actinic(?) bulb and so I got a daylight bulb ($15) I got the AP Master test kit ($30) I also cant forget a bottle of non-sudsing NH3 ($0.99). So after all that I have a tank with water and gravel in it and I am testing and adding NH3 to it in hopes that St. Nitrites soon will be there. (Darn Xmas Carols). Let us know how ya do and good luck.

[ArkyLady]

You hookup an air pump to a sponge filter. They are nice for fry tanks since they don't produce a lot of current, but the air pumps can be noisy.

[Harlock]

You hookup an air pump to a sponge filter. They are nice for fry tanks since they don't produce a lot of current, but the air pumps can be noisy.

Ah, that works well enough for me. Thanks for filling me in! Also, another question came to me as I lay in bed this morning. I think I know the answer but, I want to make certain.

Is fish waste water (after a tank cleaning and WC) okay to pour out into plants? As I mentioned in a previous post, I live in a hot climate with little rain and we are always rationing water, so being able to recycle the old water no longer suited for fish would be a boon for my flowerbeds. I am guessing since plants can grow in such water that using it in flowerbeds would be okay, but I want to make sure.

[Dog]

It is great for plants. Homemade fertilizer.

[happychem]

Is it ever! We keep a few potted plants, they really took off once we started fertilizing them with old tank water and filter squeezings.

[Harlock]

Excellent! My Lantana and potted geraniums will be the happiest on the block. Also, after speaking to the wife this morning and showing her the dimensions of a 55 gallon on our wall with a tape measure, she agreed to it! So, the 55g is back on.

EDIT: Also, what is the rule on wattage per gallon for heaters? Or do I trust the packages? What if I am shopping online and don't really have a rating, just watts?

[ArkyLady]

Here is a link with the specs for my personal favorite heaters :)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3858&N=2004+112984

They have really great product info at that site.

[Harlock]

Thank so much Arky Lady! That site was very helpful. Also, I am back down to a 37 or 29 gallon tank. The reason? Stands. Stands seem highly overpriced and as I want to set this thing up soonish I don't really have the time to build a nice one. So the plan now is to do the 29g, wait a while, build a good looking 55g, 75g, 90g stand and then pick up a 75 gallon aquarium. The stand I did buy for a 20 long, 29g, 37g is nice. It was a light oak (matches the living room furniture perfectly) and I ordered it from Petco for a reduced price and free shipping. Yeah, 35 pounds and free shippnig, can't beat that! I may still go with a 37, but it depends on how much my LFS marks them up... see posts prior to this about their mark up... over 100% higher than Big Al's online on some things. Ugh. I refuse to pay them that much.

I've another question (I know, when do I not). What sort of impact would 4-6 ghost shrimp have biologically on a tank? Do they produce a lot of ammonia? or are they sort of low bio-load-wise? They're fascinating creatures and in my youth my brother and I used to catch them in a pond near our house.

Oh, another question! Wal-Mart has some tank packages but they have Aqua-Tec HOB filters in them. I've found Tetra Tec filters on some sites... but I know nothing of Aqua-Tec and their reliability or lack thereof. Does anyone have any experience with this brand, or know anything about them? Thanks!

[happychem]

Ghost shrimp are low bio-load.

I don't like the tetra-tech line of filters, I think they're cheap (quality-wise, not expense wise). That said, I've been running a whisper filter for some time (came with the tank used) and haven't had any problems. Even after my crushed coral mesh bag broke and the impeller got jammed, it still works and makes very little noise, but I wouldn't choose it if I was picking out a filter.

[ArkyLady]

I would recommend avoiding any "kits", especially at Wal-Mart. They generally have lower priced/quality equipment included in them. If you can get your tank locally, then order everything at once from bigals or drsfostersmith or somewhere online, the shipping isn't bad at all and I can usually end up paying less for everything combined than I would have spent locally anyway. I can also get the exact equipment I want rather than settling for whatever I can get locally.

What I have on most of my tanks right now are Penguin or Emperor HOB filters (with bio-wheels) and Ebo Jager heaters. I'm also not buying hoods with any of my new tanks and just getting glass covers and doing my own thing for lighting so I can get more watts for plants.

Oh and I use pool filter sand in most of my tanks. Got a 50lb bag for $10 and I still have some left over. Only time I buy aquarium substrate is when I want onyx sand or something special for planted tanks now that I'm addicted to them :)

[Harlock]

Well, I'd like to plant this tank eventually. Is there a certain substrate to look for aside from sand? I'm interested in low-light, low maintenance, no CO2 injection... you know... lazy and easy, snice it's my first time with aquatic plants.

EDIT: Oh, and I am certainly ordering two Penguin 125s and 2 Ebo-Jager 50W heaters and some other stuff from Big Al's online. I need to find another LFS to check out prices.

[happychem]

Well, I'd like to plant this tank eventually. Is there a certain substrate to look for aside from sand? I'm interested in low-light, low maintenance, no CO2 injection... you know... lazy and easy, snice it's my first time with aquatic plants.
Just go with a substrate with semi-spherical shape (I think that's what they call it) and about 3mm diameter, I think that a #2 mesh size is about right, but that's just off the top of my head.
Products like sand blasting grit and pool filter sand are good (REALLY cheap) substrates to go for, even if you weren't planning on planting. I got 80kg for free from a local (well, kinda, it was about a 30 minute drive) quarry. Look in your yellow pages under 'sand' or 'sand blasting' and you should find tons of resources.

[Harlock]

Well, I did a little ionvestigating (i.e reading the box) and found out the Aqua-Tech filters in the kits at Wal-Mart are from Marineland. I suppose it's their low-end model and I wasn't planning on using it for the 29 anyway. I may, however, use it on a smaller tank at a later date.

My wife really likes the clown loaches we have looked at, but I keep telling her we'll need a bigger tank for them. I think I sold her on red eye tetras, cherry barbs and gouramis however. I still need to check around for plants. The one pet store here that sells fish and such had some, so I'll check out their prices and selection. I went to plant geek and found some I really liked that were low-light and easy, so I am quite happy. Everything is coming together now. I have everything picked out and ready to buy and order, so I imagine on the Monday after Christmas, I'll be aquiring everything. Thanks so much for the help so far, everyone, you do not know how much I appreciate it and how much more confident I am than when I posted that first day. If I have more questions I'll ask and I'll certainly be around, I like this place!