Help my fish are dying!

[jacqueline2215]

I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I went through 20 fish my first month with a variety of water conditioning problems. I finally got the tanks stabilized and now my betta has fin rot pretty bad and my two gold gouramis and my cory catfish have ich. I quarantined my betta alone and cleaned one tank to quarantine the other three alone but now my catfish is dying. Is this due to the ich medicine? Anything I can do....should I quarantine him alone? I think he has ich...he was light green but now very dark and almost black. Any advice?

[Kasakato]

Ok we need a few things here.
Do you know that cycling is?
Do you have your own test kit?
How big is the tank?
What are the test readings now?
Is the tank cycled?
What were the 20 other fish?

[sublime1184]

Some great articles to read up on....

Quarantine Setups (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46875)

Understanding fish deseases and how to prevent them from happening (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36783)

Fish Diseases: Causes and Cures (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36876)

Ich (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759)

[jacqueline2215]

I did cycling and I have had the tank up for awhile. The other fish were a mixture. Plecos,angelfish,gouramis,snails,bala shark. I have a test for nitrites and one for ammonia. I just cleaned the one tank to quarantine my 2 gouramis and cory. My cory isn't breathing but his eyes are still moving and i feel horrible. I was told I could use my ich stuff on my cory but I have read in other places that you can't use it on scaless fish. Did I kill him? My quarantined tank is 5 gallons.

[Kasakato]

No wonder they are dead. They will all get to big for the tank. What kind of test kit do you have? Like the brandname.

[Slappy*McFish]

If he is still alive, do some water changes(30%) daily until he pulls through.

[Holly9937]

how big is the main tank you keep the fish in? also, don't bother with quarantine if you have ich, the whole tank will need to be treated. The salt method is the best, and least stressful ich treatment, read the links posted and try that. Also, don't buy anymore fish until all of the problems are taken care of and have been good for at least a month

[Holly9937]

...a variety of water conditioning problems. I finally got the tanks stabilized

One last question, what exactly do you mean by that? were you adjusting the ph? Temp? Had high amonia?

[Slappy*McFish]

Just be aware that corys don't tolorate salt very well. I've had very good luck with using 'Quickcure' on Corys, loaches and tetras.

[starter_flo]

stop killing fish

[Kasakato]

stop killing fish
How does that help? We need to now how....

[starter_flo]

this happened to me a long time ago too i was very new with the whole fish thing and i was broke and had no money and had to move. i couldnt move because i had fish so my roomate decided to put bleach in my tank killing them . finally getting to the point now. maybe someone is poisining your fish or pending on your water quality diffrent areas have diffrent water qualitys. i know someone who lived somewhere where the water quality was really bad . so he bought bottle water to fill his tank. he kept testing his tap water and found out that the water was not suitable for fish. by the way something got into his well

[jacqueline2215]

I only use tap water now. In stabilizing my tank I would just let it run empty with a product I was reccomended called TLC. Nobody is poisoning my fish nor do I want them to die, that's ridiculous! My cory died last night and want to know how to keep the rest healthy. I have my 2 gold gouramis in a hospital tank and being treated as well as the main 10g tank with my pleco and 3 other gouramis in it.

[jacqueline2215]

what do i do with salt to cure the ich?

[Kasakato]

Ich: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

[jacqueline2215]

How big of a tank should I have for a 4" pleco, 2 dwarf blue gouramis-2",1 fire gourami 2", and 2 gold gouramis 1" and 2"?

[PumaWard]

At least a 55g, or, if that's a common plec, a 75g.

The gold gourami will get rather aggressive with age and may go as far as to kill the rest of your gourami. You may want to consider rehousing them.



Just be aware that corys don't tolorate salt very well. I've had very good luck with using 'Quickcure' on Corys, loaches and tetras

Not true. For the short amount of time and dosage required to treat ich they will be unfased.

[jacqueline2215]

why do pet stores sell these fish to people they know dont have big tanks? what can i keep in a 10g?

[Kasakato]

Because the stores dont know anything. Most of them will lie just to make a buck. And a 55g should be fine for the fish. But what kind of pleco is it?

[jacqueline2215]

i believe it is a plain one...i am worried about getting that big of a tank when i am having trouble with a small one...or is my problem due to it being small?

[Kasakato]

Yes, you problem is a small tank. Bigger tanks are eaiser because theres more water so levels dont build up as fast. And we will be here to help you from when you get your tank, to the final set up.

[jacqueline2215]

i think my cory died from the quick cure

[Holly9937]

some of the medication can be really hard on fish, thats why the salt is usually a better first option. If it is a common pleco, you may consider returning it before it gets much bigger. Unfortunately, no one wants them when they get big (up to 2 ft). In general I would not trust an LFS to advise on fish issues, most don't know much more than the average customer. Of course there are exceptions, but its always best to do your own research :)

[jacqueline2215]

Well not to worry....I came home from work today and my pleco was dead along with my betta who had really bad fin rot. The 2 gold gouramis in my quarantine seem to have lost their ick spots but the nitrites are high and ph is also high. How do I put in the salt and how much for ich (its about a 2g tank). In my main tank (til I get a much bigger one) I have 2 dwarf blue gouramis and a red fire gourami. This tank the nitrate level is off the charts and the ph is very acidic. What can I do...I need to treat this tank also because it is the tank the gold gouramis got ich from. How long and how much salt to put in this tank (its about 10g). how do I get my levels stabilized?

[Kasakato]

What are the nitrate and pH levels?

[Kasakato]

Right here in the ICH article: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39759

It says 2tsp/g.

[starter_flo]

cycle which will reduce fish loss use stuff to take out chlorine and use stuff like that to treat your water if your fish still dyin do all what i said. but leave you tank empty do test with your water on your own or let the pet store do it

[Kasakato]

Cycle is useless. It has nothing in it that will help anyone. If you want to remove chlorine and/or chlorimne(sp) get Prime. And I don't get the test part.

[mishi8]

Well not to worry....I came home from work today and my pleco was dead along with my betta who had really bad fin rot. The 2 gold gouramis in my quarantine seem to have lost their ick spots but the nitrites are high and ph is also high. How do I put in the salt and how much for ich (its about a 2g tank). In my main tank (til I get a much bigger one) I have 2 dwarf blue gouramis and a red fire gourami. This tank the nitrate level is off the charts and the ph is very acidic. What can I do...I need to treat this tank also because it is the tank the gold gouramis got ich from. How long and how much salt to put in this tank (its about 10g). how do I get my levels stabilized?

Do some water changes. It sounds to me like your fish are becoming ill due the the stress of an uncycled tank. I'm assuming that you aren't done cycling your 10 gal or your quarantine tank. You mentioned earlier that you stabilized an empty tank, but that doesn't mean that it is cycled. You either cycle with fish or do a fishless cycle by adding ammonia to the tank. Adding "Cycle" to the tank will not likely help. Bio-Spira is really the only product that actually helps shorten the cycle time.

[jacqueline2215]

I have gone through so many fish that I thought my tank was cycled. I changed 1/3 of main tank and 1/2 of hospital tank. I just added salt and upped the circulation in my main tank thinking there might not be enough oxygen as my fish are gasping at the surface....does anyone reccomend a complete water change on my main tank? My main tank levels are off the charts for nitrite (so purple not on card) and between 7.2 and 7.4 for ph. My hopsital tank is very acidic (6.2) and has high nitrites also.

[Kasakato]

How high? Like a number?

[mishi8]

I have gone through so many fish that I thought my tank was cycled. I changed 1/3 of main tank and 1/2 of hospital tank. I just added salt and upped the circulation in my main tank thinking there might not be enough oxygen as my fish are gasping at the surface....does anyone reccomend a complete water change on my main tank? My main tank levels are off the charts for nitrite (so purple not on card) and between 7.2 and 7.4 for ph. My hopsital tank is very acidic (6.2) and has high nitrites also.

No, don't do a complete water change, it will change the water too drastically all at once, do back to back 50% water changes instead. And be prepared to do a lot more changes yet. They're likely gasping due to the high nitrites. Really high nitrites can kill your fish.

[jacqueline2215]

how often should i change it....should i do more tonight? the nitrite levels are over 5.0

[Kasakato]

!!!!!
That's like HIGH. And I mean HIGH.
I would do back to back 75% water changes until it goes below 0.25

You need to keep doing as many water changes as it takes, every day to keep the ammonia and nitrites below 0.25ppm. After a while they will both go to zero (ammonia then nitrite) and you will see nitrates. When your levels are 0-0-5TO20 (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) your tank is cycled.

[jacqueline2215]

so i should do more changes tonight?

[rich311k]

Yes your levels are very dangerous your fish will appreciate it.

[Kasakato]

Do them NOW! Anything above 0.25 is bad.

[jacqueline2215]

ok i got my ph down mostly and nitrite down a little on my hospital tank. my ph on my main tank is also ok but nitrites are still over 5.0! and i did at least a 50% water change and changed my filter on my main tank.

[Kasakato]

How did you change it? You dont want to be messing with that druing the cycle. [the filter media] And whats the pH level? Looks like more water changes.

[jacqueline2215]

i have cartidges that go in and i put a new one in cuz the water was flowing over the old one. ph is 6.8-7.0

[jacqueline2215]

while im doing these changes am i taking out the salt i put in for the ich?

[Kasakato]

No. Get the old one. Put it back in the filter. This is where all of the bacteria that you need to cycle the tank is. If you toss it, you start the cycle over. All you need to do wash it in some OLD tank water. If you use tap water you also kill the bacteria.

You pH is perfect. Just leave it.

[Kasakato]

while im doing these changes am i taking out the salt i put in for the ich?
Yes. For every 50% change you loose about 1/4 of your salt. But right now the nitrites are a bigger problem then ich.

[jacqueline2215]

so i wash it in a bowl of tank water?

[Slappy*McFish]

If it's been out of the filter for over an hour, I wouldn't bother putting it back in there...especially if it was in the trashcan. The bacteria are growing everywhere in the tank, not just the filter.

[jacqueline2215]

its only been out like 30 min and i put it back in....should i or not?

[Kasakato]

It was only 30min or so Slappy. I think it should be fine.

What you need to do, is get a small bucket or bowl of tank water, and swish the media around in it. Then add it back to your filter. In a normal cycling tank is should be OK with out it, bet since you are having so many problem every bit is worth gold.

[Slappy*McFish]

If it's already in, then leave it. Rinse it off in tank water weekly to clean it.

[Kasakato]

its only been out like 30 min and i put it back in....should i or not?

Look up.

[jacqueline2215]

but it says on the filter when the water overflows it to change it or it doesn't filter the waste properly and causes my ph to go crazy

[jacqueline2215]

i also read to keep the light on to raise temps...should i do that

[Kasakato]

You are treating for ich, so you want a temp of 84*. Set the heater to that setting. Dont use the lights to heat up the tank.

Just clean the media. Dont replace. Thats is what the bucket and stuff is for.

[jacqueline2215]

i have to replace it at sometime...its already falling apart (they are disposable not permanent) i dont have a heater for my tank

[Kasakato]

Ouch. Can you get one tommorow morning? That one filter media sheet had all the bacteria on it already. But now its gone, chances are your cycle got set back some more.

[jacqueline2215]

can i get what? i have a new one to put in but you told me to rinse off the old one and but it back in.....

[Kasakato]

Ok put the old media back in. End of story


Can you get a heater in the monring?

[jacqueline2215]

Thanks, I'm turning in for the night. I'll get in touch w/ you tomorrow.

[Kasakato]

Cool, its important to have a 12 hour on and off cycle, just like us humans.

[mishi8]

but it says on the filter when the water overflows it to change it or it doesn't filter the waste properly and causes my ph to go crazy

Waste in your filter should have no impact on your pH. You will see a bit of a pH change during the cycling process though, but only a small shift in pH...nothing to worry about. Don't try changing it up or down, just let it be. A stable pH is much better for your fish.

What type of filter do you have? You can typically continue to use a "disposable" filter for longer than is suggested by the manufacturer. As mentioned earlier, just rinse it out in old tank water. Reason being that a sizable amount of your good bacteria is growing on the filter media, and you want to keep as much of it as possible. When I used a Top Fin 10 power filter (like a Whisper power filter), it came with disposable media...essentially a floss bag with carbon in it. It was easy enough to take the old carbon out and replace with new as I needed, but I kept the bag and just rinsed it periodically.

[mishi8]

i have to replace it at sometime...its already falling apart (they are disposable not permanent) i dont have a heater for my tank

A heater may not be essential at this time of year, depending on how hot the room gets, but you should have one for keeping tropical fish.

[Kasakato]

A heater may not be essential at this time of year, depending on how hot the room gets, but you should have one for keeping tropical fish.
Shes treating for ich. Without a heater, getting to 84* will be hard.

[mishi8]

Shes treating for ich. Without a heater, getting to 84* will be hard.

I understand that, but there is also more going on here than needing to treat for ich. I was simply emphasizing the need for tropical fish to have a heater period. And I didn't think that the ich temperature needed to be repeated again. I hardly think there was a need to go out of your way to correct me. Quite frankly, this whole thread has been difficult to follow with the less than detailed yo-yoing reponses. If I were a brand-newbee, I'd be really confused by this point.

[Kasakato]

And you think I'm not? We all in the beginning tried to explain the stuff that we normally do. Some people get it right away, some people don't. In the case she still hasn't understood all the of Ich and cycling stuff. If you think you are *so* much better than me, than good you you. I'm sorry you think that way, but there's nothing I can do.

And I was not correcting you, I was adding to the point to get a heater.

[mishi8]

What? Kasakato, get over yourself.

[Kasakato]

Im ok.

[Holly9937]

Also, what is the ph of your tap water? I'm assuming you use the same water source for both tanks, so I don't understand why the readings from the two tanks are so different. Filters will not alter your ph like that. A drastic ph change will harm your fish as much as high nitrites/amonia will. If you are using chemicals to change your ph ~ DON'T!!!!! Whatever your ph is in your water source (6.2 or 7.....) will be fine, your fish can adjust, but they can't adjust to it changing frequently and drastically.

[jacqueline2215]

Wow busy day on here...... I don't use tap water, I use bottled water. Well I ran out last night so I am using tap now. I don't use chemicals to mess with my ph. My nitrites are still high after 3-50% water changes (each tank) and a 75% 10 minutes ago (haven't checked it after the 75%). My fish guy told me to use a product called BioSpira that will bring it down fast but I can't find it around here. So he told me to use my Cycle.

[jacqueline2215]

Also there is a green area on my thermometer which I was told as long as it was in that range my temp was ok....its at about 78*

[Kasakato]

Bio Spira is the only thing that will cycle your tank in under 24hours in most cases. But stop using Cycle. It could be messing with the nitrites! Thats it! Stop using it from now on, and do two 75% water changes on both tanks. Do that now and post the nitrite levels. Il go and find the place to get Bio Spira.

[jacqueline2215]

Also when I get my 55g to put my gouramis in, I plan on using my 10g as a hospital tank...should I put anything in it? What could I keep in my 2g?

[jacqueline2215]

I just did a 75% but used the cycle...i will stop but when should I do another change?

[Kasakato]

I would retire the 2g. It is too small for anything really other than a Betta. But even that is really small.

The 10g with a heater and filter should be kept empty and in a closet for when its needed. IF a fish gets sick all you have to do is pull it out, set it up, fill it up and cycle it. To cycle it all you need to do is take 1/2 the filter media from the main tank, and put it in the 10g. The bacteria in this media will be enough to support any fish the is sick.

[Kasakato]

I just did a 75% but used the cycle...i will stop but when should I do another change?
Toss the cycle. Get rid of it. Its not helping anyone. Do not use it any more. Just do another 2 75% water changes and re test and repost the nitrite levels.

[Slappy*McFish]

Really, all you can do at this point is play the waiting game. If you can get some Biospira within the next couple of days, then use it. Keep doing daily 30-75% water changes until your nitrites read 0. If you trust your fish store to be disease free(maybe they have a display tank setup?) ask them for some used filter media/mulm. Enough to support your current tank size. Usually their display tanks are disease free...I wouldn't trust the system tanks w/ fish for sale as these tanks may very well contain parasites.

[jacqueline2215]

Shouldnt i keep a hospital tank up and running so i dont have to wait for it to cycle? with like snails in it or something?

[Kasakato]

Like I said before, just before you need it, if you move 1/2 the media from the tank that's already cycled, into the 10g. It will cycle right away and you can add the 1 or 2 fish that need help.

[Slappy*McFish]

Yes...it will save you alot of trouble in the long run...especially if keeping it running wouldn't be a problem for you. I'd even throw in a clump of Water Sprite. Don't bother planting it, just let it float and make sure it gets enough light. Some snails would be good for the tank.

[Slappy*McFish]

Just thought I'd add. Keep in mind that snails will not tolorate many medications however. A few apple snails could be easily removed if treatment was needed. But if they reproduced, baby snails need to be removed. I would avoid using a substrate...this will help make cleaning the tank and snail removal easier.

[jacqueline2215]

ok thanks...will post new nitrite levels in 30 minutes...ps. i tested my tap water levels to make sure and the nitrite level there is 0

[Kasakato]

OK, then it probably is the cycle. But we will soon find out.

[jacqueline2215]

Woo hoo! I got my little tank stabilized...nitrites are at 0 but my main tank is still high...I think this is due to the fact that my little tank has 1 fish in it and my main one has 4

[Kasakato]

It was the Cycle. Bring down the nitrites in the other tank and wait until tomorrow. Test again and if the ammonia AND/OR nitrites are high (above 0.25) then do another water change. Keep this daily cycle up until the ammonia and nitrite levels are at 0 and you see some nitrates. This can take a while, but its possible.

[jacqueline2215]

how will i know if there are nitrates? So I will wait until tomorrow to do another water change?

[Slappy*McFish]

You can buy a test kit for nitrates. With all the water changes you've been doing, your nitrates will probably remain very low, even when the cycle is complete. You can wait until tomorrow if you like, but feel free to do as many water changes as you want. If you don't mind doing them, then by all means do another tonight.

[Kasakato]

Get this test kit: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19383;category_id=3111;pcid 1=3233;pcid2=

[jacqueline2215]

Yeah I have been doing these changes by hand with a bucket and a cup of water! I'll see what i can do, how soon should I expect my nitrates?

[Kasakato]

1-2 months.

[ekimmel]

what happens if you allow your ammonia levels to stay at 1.0-2.0 for the 1st couple months of a new tank?

[Kasakato]

Thats the danger range for fish. Changes are your fish will get ammoina poisening and may die.

[Slappy*McFish]

Ammonia levels shouldn't remain that long. Normally they start to taper off around the 2 week mark during which time the nitrites will spike and eventually fall to 0 at around the 4-6 week mark. If you still have ammonia readings after a month or two, then your bacteria are not getting established.

[ekimmel]

why isnt my bacteria getting established? i have a 10g with a zebra danio and 2 panda cories.

[Kasakato]

How offten are you changing the water? How offten are you changing the filter media?

[ekimmel]

at least once a week water changes of 25-30%, changing filter media once a month.

[Kasakato]

What are the levels right now? What kind of test kit are you using? What kind of filter is it?

Right now it sounds like its because you changed the filter. For the next month or so, test daily and do water changes when you see the ammonia and/or nitrite goes above 0.25.

[ekimmel]

i havent tested today - im tired. im using a popular test kit - same brand that makes my pH and nitrate. filter is a whisper 10 i think.

[Slappy*McFish]

What test kits are you using, first of all?
..and what is your tank cleaning regimen?

[Kasakato]

Tetra kit?