Well my sick Cherry Barbs have not gotten any better even though I fixed all environmental factors. I am planning to start them on Antibiotics in my hospital tank. My only problem is that the pH in my main tank is 7.2 and the hospital tank's water has a pH of 7.0 would this minor pH difference possibly kill an already sick fish?
pH Shock?
- Thread starter rrkss
- Start date
I wouldn't risk it. Get an inexpensive bathroom type wastebasket and a piece of airline, place just enough of the tank water in the can to keep the fish comfortable and drip aclimate them to the pH in the hospital tank. It's cheap and easy. Place fish in basket, take the airline and create a siphon from the main tank, knot airline till you get a steady drip, and let it drip till the pH is right. Good Luck. :thm:
One more question, the directions on the maracyn2 says that if everything is intact, water changes are unnecessary. Since there is no biofilter and I am adding 4 cherry barbs to this 10 gallon, I will probably need to control ammonia with water changes. Would this affect the antibiotics effectiveness if I do a 40% waterchange prior to each dose should I detect ammonia?
That very little ph difference should Not make a difference. There is actually no such thing as ph shock. I'm pretty sure it's the amount of TDS, total dissolved solids, that can shock the fish. As long as the TDS levels are similar, ph is irrelevant if I understand it correctly.
Wrong. Especially a minute difference on 0.2.
PH Discussion
Scroll down to the bottom few posts.
Water Chemistry
Scroll down to the section on PH for specific mention of TDS. He specifically says I "disbelieve" the myth about ph shock as well.
PH Discussion
Scroll down to the bottom few posts.
Water Chemistry
Scroll down to the section on PH for specific mention of TDS. He specifically says I "disbelieve" the myth about ph shock as well.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.We could debate this all night, http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html . The fish in question are ill and stressed to start with ( I would assume that's why he's choosen to put them in a hospital tank and treat them). My advice would be to take the extra precaution and acclimate them to the conditions in the hospital tank. Seriously if your gonna take the time to medicate and nurse these fish to health why not take a couple of extra hrs and properly acclimate them to their temporary home.
I did take the safe route and acclimated them slowly to the minor differences between my hospital tank water and the water in the main tank. I prepared the hospital tank water by running a box filter with my nitra-zorb pouch in it. Once the nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia all tested at 0 and the tank successfully degassed, I put the fish in a bucket and slowly drip acclimated them like what was suggested. Then I transferred them to the hospital tank after removing the nitra-zorb pouch, waited for about 2 hours so they can get comfortable and added the anti-biotics. As of today, all the fish are still alive and maybe in a couple days they will start eating again.tre8160 said:
I have a fake plastic plant in the tank and no gravel. I also have a heater and an airstone. In a little trashcan, I have water for a water change with a box filter containing the nitra-zorb. That way I will have the purest water I possibly can available incase I detect any ammonia (Since I am not using a biofilter due to antibiotic treatments)
Last edited:
i think this is the section Captain Hook was refereing to in the first link. for those of you that are following this tread, and quit scrolling through, i thought i'd post it. i always thought there was something fishy (mind the pun) about sensitivity to hydrogen ions.
here it is
___________________
pH mythology.
by Wright Huntley <huntley1/home.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999
There have been a number of panicky notes to the digest, recently, worrying
about pH change hurting fish. Those folks should relax a bit, IMO. Look
elsewhere.
Much of aquaria chemistry has been messed up by confused authors and poor
translations, Perhaps nowhere is the gospel more deeply entrenched than in
the area of pH-change damaging fish. Well folks, it doesn't. Really!
I can abruptly change the pH of the water of very delicate fish by as much
as two full points and cannot observe any alteration in their behaviour.
Others have reported more than three points (1000:1 sudden change in proton
concentration) with absolutely *no* ill effects. See Scheel's _Atlas of
Killifishes..._, TFH, for example.
In the general range of 4 to 10, most fish probably cannot feel the pH by
any known sensory mechanism. Rapid changes of pH often have been blamed for
what was really tds-change-damage or nitrite/ammonia toxicity.
Hard water frequently has a higher pH than distilled or de-ionized water. If
you dump fish into the softer water, the pH sure does drop, and the fish
most certainly die. Works every time. The cause is the change in osmotic
pressure that bursts cells in skin and gills before the regulating
mechanisms can react. pH has nothing to do with it.
If you have a lot of ammonium (harmless) in solution, a sudden rise in pH
will release copious amounts of deadly ammonia as the equilibrium condition
changes. Less common is the increase in toxicity of nitrites at *lowered* pH
(<5 or 6).
In heavily-planted tanks with lots of photosynthesis/respiration, ammonia
and nitrite are really hard to detect. pH changes under the circumstances
should have no effect at all on fish.
There are a few, rare, pH-related effects seen in breeding wild rainforest
fishes, but I suggest the concerns expressed here should be directed toward
changes in osmicity and nitrogen-compound toxicity problems. The pH itself
is not the cause of fish distress. [Even in those rare cases mentioned, it
is usually calcium ions that disrupt the breeding process or eggs and not pH
directly.]
pH changes don't hurt fish. Osmicity changes need to be gradual, to allow
the regulation to adjust. If you have ammonium/ammonia, slow change will be
every bit as deadly as quick change of pH.
Since I'm attacking some emotionally-held "faith," guess I had better raise
my flame shield, now. (^_^)
Wright
- --
Wright Huntley, Fremont CA, USA, 510 494-8679 huntleyone at home dot com
"DEMOCRACY" is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
"LIBERTY" is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.
*** http://www.self-gov.org/index.html ***
______________________
a good read, anyway. thanks, Hook. i was on the fence. there was a discussion further up about the carbon buffer system (with included equation) that should be required reading for those considering CO2 injection, IMHO.
here it is
___________________
pH mythology.
by Wright Huntley <huntley1/home.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999
There have been a number of panicky notes to the digest, recently, worrying
about pH change hurting fish. Those folks should relax a bit, IMO. Look
elsewhere.
Much of aquaria chemistry has been messed up by confused authors and poor
translations, Perhaps nowhere is the gospel more deeply entrenched than in
the area of pH-change damaging fish. Well folks, it doesn't. Really!
I can abruptly change the pH of the water of very delicate fish by as much
as two full points and cannot observe any alteration in their behaviour.
Others have reported more than three points (1000:1 sudden change in proton
concentration) with absolutely *no* ill effects. See Scheel's _Atlas of
Killifishes..._, TFH, for example.
In the general range of 4 to 10, most fish probably cannot feel the pH by
any known sensory mechanism. Rapid changes of pH often have been blamed for
what was really tds-change-damage or nitrite/ammonia toxicity.
Hard water frequently has a higher pH than distilled or de-ionized water. If
you dump fish into the softer water, the pH sure does drop, and the fish
most certainly die. Works every time. The cause is the change in osmotic
pressure that bursts cells in skin and gills before the regulating
mechanisms can react. pH has nothing to do with it.
If you have a lot of ammonium (harmless) in solution, a sudden rise in pH
will release copious amounts of deadly ammonia as the equilibrium condition
changes. Less common is the increase in toxicity of nitrites at *lowered* pH
(<5 or 6).
In heavily-planted tanks with lots of photosynthesis/respiration, ammonia
and nitrite are really hard to detect. pH changes under the circumstances
should have no effect at all on fish.
There are a few, rare, pH-related effects seen in breeding wild rainforest
fishes, but I suggest the concerns expressed here should be directed toward
changes in osmicity and nitrogen-compound toxicity problems. The pH itself
is not the cause of fish distress. [Even in those rare cases mentioned, it
is usually calcium ions that disrupt the breeding process or eggs and not pH
directly.]
pH changes don't hurt fish. Osmicity changes need to be gradual, to allow
the regulation to adjust. If you have ammonium/ammonia, slow change will be
every bit as deadly as quick change of pH.
Since I'm attacking some emotionally-held "faith," guess I had better raise
my flame shield, now. (^_^)
Wright
- --
Wright Huntley, Fremont CA, USA, 510 494-8679 huntleyone at home dot com
"DEMOCRACY" is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
"LIBERTY" is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.
*** http://www.self-gov.org/index.html ***
______________________
a good read, anyway. thanks, Hook. i was on the fence. there was a discussion further up about the carbon buffer system (with included equation) that should be required reading for those considering CO2 injection, IMHO.
