The ammonia test strips actually said zero this time (occasionally there is a little but still in the "safe" range). We even thought that our test strips might be inaccurate or expired or something, so we took some water to Pet Smart to be tested, but it turns out they use the same kind I do! So frustrating...
12-hour killer disease? (Attention Jeremiah)
- Thread starter hbeverb
- Start date
I think it was something crusty on the outside of his eye, but I couldn't be sure. It could have been the outside layer of his eye, I guess. Thanks for the compliments -- he was the most beautiful goldfish I ever had!
I would suggest getting an API master freshwater liquid test kit. It's not fun to shell out the money, but some places have it for cheaper (like petmountain, maybe ebay, just check the expiration dates)
plus the kit should last you years...
the strips are unfortunately appallingly inaccurate (try them side by side with liquid tests!)
plus the kit should last you years...
the strips are unfortunately appallingly inaccurate (try them side by side with liquid tests!)
:iagree: Always important that you have your own liquid test kit rather than rely on test strips.
Wow.. so severe and so fast. So sorry for your loss.. he was a nice looking goldfish.
From the photos and description, I'm thinking ammonia burn.. or nitrates. That just doesn't look like or sound like a disease being the primary issue at all to me. And there wasn't much time involved for disease to be a secondary one. Besides which, an illness or disease takes longer usually from onset to death. It seems more like this fish was suddenly overcome by severe conditions, not a gradual decline.
The goldie looks big enough that he'd long outgrown the 5 gallon tank he was in. You even mentioned you had noticed how much he had grown over the last 2 months. When he was smaller, everything was fine. He was happy, healthy, and kept growing. Then one day, the balance just swings the other way and you get a huge spike. The result of that is super high toxic conditions. The bouyancy issue and degrading finnage were the only warning signs you got that something was heading in the wrong direction as he grew bigger. But you didn't think it was poor water quality. You've been relying on test strips (which are sadly unreliable), so you couldn't tell what condition the water was in and you weren't able to prevent this. He needed a much larger tank with extra filtration on top of the water changes you were already doing. Unfortunately, even the best care isn't going to be enough when the tank size is too small.
Reading through your post, hbeverb, you did so many things right. You paid close attention to dietary needs and kept up with regular maintenance. You noticed symptoms something wasn't right and you made an effort to research those and gave good treatment of those symptoms (without realizing the cause). You switched his substrate to something less risky.. and you tested the water (not knowing there was a problem with strips). Thinking you were dealing with an illness, you were ready to try medication to help his fins heal up and whatever appeared to be growing over his eyes. I'm not sure about the eyes, btw. But given the rest of this scenario, that might be latter stages of burning from the toxic levels where the tissue begins to actually peel. That's also how this appears in your photos... it isn't just cloudiness or something fuzzy.
I'm also not sure what conditions will trigger a pH crash like that. It'll be interesting to hear more about that part of this from someone else who replies. (There's always so much more to learn.) That might tell us even more about the water conditions, or spike, or whichever parameter went up so high that this happened.
All in all, it's very sad that this happened... but maybe it will help for you to think of this as a learning experience. The 5 gallon tank you have isn't suitable for fancy goldfish at all (minumum there would be 15 gallons per goldfish to provide enough room and stability to grow and develop fully). If you're not able to upgade right now to a tank of that size, it would be better to use this tank for smaller tropical fish or inverts. We have a great freshwater/tropic section here where people can help with stocking ideas. You should invest in an API test kit... that will save you a lot of grief stemming from erroneous or misleading test results. Also, having hard water is not a problem with most tropical species, either. So using regular tap water along with a dechlorinator that removes chlorine/chloramine works great. No more need to run things through your Brita filter thingy.
I'm glad you posted so many details with all the photos to share this with us. That's a good way for us to also discuss these issues... we all learn for shared experiences like this one that way. I wish you the best of luck with whatever else you decide to go with now for this tank. We have a nice community of fishkeepers here and I'm glad you've decided to join too.
From the photos and description, I'm thinking ammonia burn.. or nitrates. That just doesn't look like or sound like a disease being the primary issue at all to me. And there wasn't much time involved for disease to be a secondary one. Besides which, an illness or disease takes longer usually from onset to death. It seems more like this fish was suddenly overcome by severe conditions, not a gradual decline.
The goldie looks big enough that he'd long outgrown the 5 gallon tank he was in. You even mentioned you had noticed how much he had grown over the last 2 months. When he was smaller, everything was fine. He was happy, healthy, and kept growing. Then one day, the balance just swings the other way and you get a huge spike. The result of that is super high toxic conditions. The bouyancy issue and degrading finnage were the only warning signs you got that something was heading in the wrong direction as he grew bigger. But you didn't think it was poor water quality. You've been relying on test strips (which are sadly unreliable), so you couldn't tell what condition the water was in and you weren't able to prevent this. He needed a much larger tank with extra filtration on top of the water changes you were already doing. Unfortunately, even the best care isn't going to be enough when the tank size is too small.
Reading through your post, hbeverb, you did so many things right. You paid close attention to dietary needs and kept up with regular maintenance. You noticed symptoms something wasn't right and you made an effort to research those and gave good treatment of those symptoms (without realizing the cause). You switched his substrate to something less risky.. and you tested the water (not knowing there was a problem with strips). Thinking you were dealing with an illness, you were ready to try medication to help his fins heal up and whatever appeared to be growing over his eyes. I'm not sure about the eyes, btw. But given the rest of this scenario, that might be latter stages of burning from the toxic levels where the tissue begins to actually peel. That's also how this appears in your photos... it isn't just cloudiness or something fuzzy.
I'm also not sure what conditions will trigger a pH crash like that. It'll be interesting to hear more about that part of this from someone else who replies. (There's always so much more to learn.) That might tell us even more about the water conditions, or spike, or whichever parameter went up so high that this happened.
All in all, it's very sad that this happened... but maybe it will help for you to think of this as a learning experience. The 5 gallon tank you have isn't suitable for fancy goldfish at all (minumum there would be 15 gallons per goldfish to provide enough room and stability to grow and develop fully). If you're not able to upgade right now to a tank of that size, it would be better to use this tank for smaller tropical fish or inverts. We have a great freshwater/tropic section here where people can help with stocking ideas. You should invest in an API test kit... that will save you a lot of grief stemming from erroneous or misleading test results. Also, having hard water is not a problem with most tropical species, either. So using regular tap water along with a dechlorinator that removes chlorine/chloramine works great. No more need to run things through your Brita filter thingy.
I'm glad you posted so many details with all the photos to share this with us. That's a good way for us to also discuss these issues... we all learn for shared experiences like this one that way. I wish you the best of luck with whatever else you decide to go with now for this tank. We have a nice community of fishkeepers here and I'm glad you've decided to join too.
Good call, Kashta - we're looking at a water quality issue here. This is a classic case of a sudden pH plunge and the horrible effects it can have on fish physiology.
First let me say that hbeverb, I am so sorry that this happened to you. You did everything you could, but without prior knowledge of the effects pH can have, you didn't know how to help.
A quick primer on pH. pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of water. The scale is logarithmic, unlike ammonia or nitrate levels. So a drop from 8 to 7 on your test strips means the water is 10 times more acidic. A drop from 8 to 6 means the water is 100 times more acidic!
Acidic water affects fish the same way that acid affects our human skin. It burns - attacking sensitive tissue first. So gills, eyes, and fin tips would be the first places affected.
You can quickly see that if the pH drops suddenly, your fish can go from fine to death's door in just hours. In the photos, you can see that the fish died with mouth wide open, gill plates extended. His gill filaments were burned off, so he couldn't breathe. You can also see the white edges around his eyes, where his entire corneas are burned away. The milky coating on his body and fins is excess slime coat, which he produced to try to keep the acidic water away from his skin.
I suspect that the pH dropped quite drastically. And I'm glad you mentioned 1) the tank size, 2) the Brita filter, and 3) the large water change you did. I think these are the key elements to the problem.
Your tank is much, much too small for even one goldfish. 5 gallons won't support much more than a few snails. A fancy goldfish like yours needs at least 20 gallons. But you know that by now.
Since 5 gallons is such a tiny amount of water, a large water change can have an enormous effect on tank chemistry. Brita filters contain an ion-exchange resin to soften the water. If you put in a fresh filter just before changing the water using the Brita pitcher, the resin was acting at full power. Meaning you changed from an old, possibly barely-functioning filter that put out neutral-pH water to the new one that was putting
out very soft water. A large water change with very soft water would cause the pH to crash, especially in such a small tank.
Without understanding that pH is a logarithmic scale and the need to deal with pH problems immediately, you couldn't have known how to save your poor goldie.
So lessons learned: 1) Don't use Brita filters for aquariums. 2) Keep up with your water changes! and 3) Never keep goldfish in a tank smaller than 20 or 30 gallons.
I'm so sorry that you had to learn the lesson with such a well-loved goldfish, especially one that you cared for so well. I'm glad that you found us and we could help you root out the problem. Best of luck to you and again, my condolences. RIP little goldie.
First let me say that hbeverb, I am so sorry that this happened to you. You did everything you could, but without prior knowledge of the effects pH can have, you didn't know how to help.
A quick primer on pH. pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of water. The scale is logarithmic, unlike ammonia or nitrate levels. So a drop from 8 to 7 on your test strips means the water is 10 times more acidic. A drop from 8 to 6 means the water is 100 times more acidic!
Acidic water affects fish the same way that acid affects our human skin. It burns - attacking sensitive tissue first. So gills, eyes, and fin tips would be the first places affected.
You can quickly see that if the pH drops suddenly, your fish can go from fine to death's door in just hours. In the photos, you can see that the fish died with mouth wide open, gill plates extended. His gill filaments were burned off, so he couldn't breathe. You can also see the white edges around his eyes, where his entire corneas are burned away. The milky coating on his body and fins is excess slime coat, which he produced to try to keep the acidic water away from his skin.
I suspect that the pH dropped quite drastically. And I'm glad you mentioned 1) the tank size, 2) the Brita filter, and 3) the large water change you did. I think these are the key elements to the problem.
Your tank is much, much too small for even one goldfish. 5 gallons won't support much more than a few snails. A fancy goldfish like yours needs at least 20 gallons. But you know that by now.
Since 5 gallons is such a tiny amount of water, a large water change can have an enormous effect on tank chemistry. Brita filters contain an ion-exchange resin to soften the water. If you put in a fresh filter just before changing the water using the Brita pitcher, the resin was acting at full power. Meaning you changed from an old, possibly barely-functioning filter that put out neutral-pH water to the new one that was putting
out very soft water. A large water change with very soft water would cause the pH to crash, especially in such a small tank.
Without understanding that pH is a logarithmic scale and the need to deal with pH problems immediately, you couldn't have known how to save your poor goldie.
So lessons learned: 1) Don't use Brita filters for aquariums. 2) Keep up with your water changes! and 3) Never keep goldfish in a tank smaller than 20 or 30 gallons.
I'm so sorry that you had to learn the lesson with such a well-loved goldfish, especially one that you cared for so well. I'm glad that you found us and we could help you root out the problem. Best of luck to you and again, my condolences. RIP little goldie.
Thanks Kashta and Flaringshutter for your thoughtful responses. I have thought about everything that has been said on this thread so far, and I would like to respond by admitting what I think my mistakes were and to explain why I made them. Of course, I regret all of this now, because I lost a beloved pet. Hopefully, other fish owners will learn something from this:
1. The 5-gallon tank with a goldfish. I knew that my apartment complex doesn't allow bigger than 5 gallon fish tanks because of some guy that damaged an apartment with one several years back, and I had the choice of getting another type of fish. I have always loved goldfish, having them as a kid (although I was totally ignorant of how to take care of them -- most people I know think a 5-gallon tank for a goldfish is extravagent!). Of all the fish I've ever had, goldfish and bettas are my favorites, and I had most recently had a betta that actually lived beyond his expected lifespan to almost 4 years. I read up on goldfish and that they produce a lot of waste, and I read about the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle, and I knew that a bigger aquarium would be better. However, I am the type of person who thinks that hard work and diligence can overcome any problem, so once I read that CHEMICALS were the reason goldfish needed bigger space, not just swimming room as so many people erroneously think, I thought, "I can do this! All I have to do is change the water often and monitor the relevant chemicals, and I can stay within the apartment rules AND get the kind of fish I really want." Apparently, this is next to impossible, although it worked for 2 years.
2. I depended on test strips that I didn't know were unreliable. I had no idea until this post that I shouldn't trust these or that I shouldn't trust the free water testing at pet stores (who actually use the same strips!).
3. When I saw the acidity on my strips, I did a water change immediately and thought that would fix it. Flaringshutter, I certainly do understand the logarithmic scale, although I appreciate that you were trying to help -- I have a degree in physics, actually. The problem is that, at the time, it didn't make logical sense why the acidity should be so low, so I thought my test results were wrong. I had just added fresh water to the tank about 36 hours before, and adding neutral water to an acidic tank should have raised the pH! Since I was in a huge worry to get to work, all I could do was change even more of the water and hope to raise the pH more. I was starting to suspect that there was something wrong with the strips at this point and took a water sample to a pet store that evening. Again, as I said earlier, they came up with the same acidity results as my strips had shown, but it was too late at this point. How could I reconcile the fact that two water changes in quick succession could make the water MORE acidic instead of less? If I had known how bad it was, I would have taken him out of there immediately, but if my Brita filter is to blame, that wouldn't have even helped either.
4. I used a Brita filter on the water I put in the aquarium. Actually, I'm still not sure if this was a mistake. I had been using the same pitcher to do water changes for 2 years and never had a problem with it. In fact, someone at a pet store told me I should filter the water here, since Ann Arbor's water is off the hardness scale on the strips! She told me that that would soften the water some, and it made sense to me that I should filter out as much junk as possible before letting my fish live in it. I also used a dechlorinator (of course) and a little aquarium salt.
I am also unsure if getting live plants was a smart decision. It seemed to help in the short term, but maybe it did something I don't know about to the water? It was Elodea, if anyone knows. I hope this sheds some light on the course of events that lead to this poor fish's death. I feel terrible about it, and I shouldn't have thought I could overcome the small aquarium size. However, I am still perplexed by how sudden this all was. Why did the acidity suddenly drop in the first place, if I didn't do anything really out of the ordinary? I had the same routine for two years, and yet this one time I get a severe chemical change like this. If both tests showed there was little to no ammonia in the water, how did the water get so acidic? If I added fresh water, how did that not neutralize it? Was there some chemical in our water supply that I didn't know about because of the recent snow/flood or other reasons? Now I'm almost scared to drink it!
I understand that this is ultimately my fault, so I just want everyone to know how sorry I am. This fish didn't die from lack of care!
Thanks
1. The 5-gallon tank with a goldfish. I knew that my apartment complex doesn't allow bigger than 5 gallon fish tanks because of some guy that damaged an apartment with one several years back, and I had the choice of getting another type of fish. I have always loved goldfish, having them as a kid (although I was totally ignorant of how to take care of them -- most people I know think a 5-gallon tank for a goldfish is extravagent!). Of all the fish I've ever had, goldfish and bettas are my favorites, and I had most recently had a betta that actually lived beyond his expected lifespan to almost 4 years. I read up on goldfish and that they produce a lot of waste, and I read about the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle, and I knew that a bigger aquarium would be better. However, I am the type of person who thinks that hard work and diligence can overcome any problem, so once I read that CHEMICALS were the reason goldfish needed bigger space, not just swimming room as so many people erroneously think, I thought, "I can do this! All I have to do is change the water often and monitor the relevant chemicals, and I can stay within the apartment rules AND get the kind of fish I really want." Apparently, this is next to impossible, although it worked for 2 years.
2. I depended on test strips that I didn't know were unreliable. I had no idea until this post that I shouldn't trust these or that I shouldn't trust the free water testing at pet stores (who actually use the same strips!).
3. When I saw the acidity on my strips, I did a water change immediately and thought that would fix it. Flaringshutter, I certainly do understand the logarithmic scale, although I appreciate that you were trying to help -- I have a degree in physics, actually. The problem is that, at the time, it didn't make logical sense why the acidity should be so low, so I thought my test results were wrong. I had just added fresh water to the tank about 36 hours before, and adding neutral water to an acidic tank should have raised the pH! Since I was in a huge worry to get to work, all I could do was change even more of the water and hope to raise the pH more. I was starting to suspect that there was something wrong with the strips at this point and took a water sample to a pet store that evening. Again, as I said earlier, they came up with the same acidity results as my strips had shown, but it was too late at this point. How could I reconcile the fact that two water changes in quick succession could make the water MORE acidic instead of less? If I had known how bad it was, I would have taken him out of there immediately, but if my Brita filter is to blame, that wouldn't have even helped either.
4. I used a Brita filter on the water I put in the aquarium. Actually, I'm still not sure if this was a mistake. I had been using the same pitcher to do water changes for 2 years and never had a problem with it. In fact, someone at a pet store told me I should filter the water here, since Ann Arbor's water is off the hardness scale on the strips! She told me that that would soften the water some, and it made sense to me that I should filter out as much junk as possible before letting my fish live in it. I also used a dechlorinator (of course) and a little aquarium salt.
I am also unsure if getting live plants was a smart decision. It seemed to help in the short term, but maybe it did something I don't know about to the water? It was Elodea, if anyone knows. I hope this sheds some light on the course of events that lead to this poor fish's death. I feel terrible about it, and I shouldn't have thought I could overcome the small aquarium size. However, I am still perplexed by how sudden this all was. Why did the acidity suddenly drop in the first place, if I didn't do anything really out of the ordinary? I had the same routine for two years, and yet this one time I get a severe chemical change like this. If both tests showed there was little to no ammonia in the water, how did the water get so acidic? If I added fresh water, how did that not neutralize it? Was there some chemical in our water supply that I didn't know about because of the recent snow/flood or other reasons? Now I'm almost scared to drink it!
I understand that this is ultimately my fault, so I just want everyone to know how sorry I am. This fish didn't die from lack of care!
Thanks
We know you tried your best. I'm sorry I can't offer more to help. (When I got onto a forum and discovered the problems with test strips, I almost cried. It was that bad. True story.) It seems like most people break into serious fishkeeping in some similar way. No one's going to judge you for trying to do the right thing the best you know how.
