Black water/African Cichlids.

[Lady G]

So since there are so many of them I figure it isn't to early to start trying to figure out what I want. I have talked about them before but now I am ready to start looking so.....Here are the AC's I am looking at for the tank...

Cynotilapia
Pseudotropheus (I really like these)
Labeotropheus
labidochromis caeruleus (I really need this one)
Melanochromis
Haplochromis (this are another I think must have)

Now I know I most likely can't have them all..how nice that would be if I could though!! What would NOT work?

 

[Coler]

What size tank are we talking Lady G ? That pretty much determines a lot.

In respect of haplochromis, that is a very large group of species, varying quite a bit in size and attitude, also in tank mate preferences. Generally, malawi haps however are the larger guys who predate on smaller fish.

The lab. caereulus is most often the yellow colour morph (blue and white also exist) and are little stunners - great choice for any mbuna tank.

Cynotilapia most often means Cyno Afra - another beaut, usually people have access to a blue variant, although over here lions cove are available frequently - nice little black and yellow stripe.

Pseudotropheus - usually zebras, or many colour morphs available, also could mean acei/socolofi Any preferences/what is available locally ? A pic/description would help.

Labeotropheus most often means trewavasae/fuelleborni - nice fish - a pic or description of what your thinking of would help - fair few colour morphs here too.

Everything you're looking at except the haps are mbuna which should be stocked in harems, ratio of 1 male to 3 or so females (minimum 2 no maximum). Same goes for most malawi haps (in fact I think all of them). If the tank is truly big, a nice way to stock them is some groups of mbuna and then a few male haps of different species (the females tend to be a lot less colourful).

Regarding a black water look, I actually think the fish are best presented with pale substrate, pale rockwork, black background and crystal clear water. In any event, you want your Ph over 7 minimum and 7.8 to 8 would be great. I think that that being so your problem in creating blackwater planted would be keeping the plants alive but I'm no planty. Regarding keeping them at Ph below 7 and getting a lot of tannins in there, I don't know how successful that would be.

Plantwise, plenty of choices. Anubias, Valls, Java Fern, Java Moss, Crinium (Onion plant) will all do fine. The trick imo is to plant mucho green stuff, so that even though they chow down on it, some will be recovering while the rest flourishes.

ps. I'm a gonna stick this over to the cichlid forum if that's ok

 

[Lady G]

It is just a 55 Coler.

As far as the Haps...well I would love one of these if possible course I would love ALL of them, but I know that isn't possible...

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1576

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1548

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1558

then of course I would love to have each color of the Lab

the cynotilapia is afra..but if I could find the other that would be nice.

http://www.africancichlids.net/gallery/cynotilapia_afra_cobwe1.jpg

the Pseudotropheus:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1460

the zebras i just love too!

Labeotropheus
http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/graphics/articles/labeotropheus-trewavasae.jpg

http://www.bigskycichlids.com/images/share/Ltrewavasae_mpanga_2005.jpg

of course in the end I may change up a few of these as I look more at them...but these are my faves that I have seen this far.

Now as far as the ratio m/fm...I thought it was better to have an all male tank?

 

[Coler]

Well, I would in fact always go for a male/female mbuna tank, space permitting. Its just less hit and miss with compatability, and the nice thing about mbuna is that the females are generally as attractive as the males.

The Pseudotropheus you're looking at is an acei - lovely fish.

You could think about...

3 of the trewevasae, 1 male/2 female.

4 acei, 1 male 3 female.

4 labs, 1 male 3 female - i would take the yellows.

4 Cynotilapia Afra of the colour morph you like best (the lions cove are afra too btw just a different colouration).

1 of the victorian haps, male, added last, maybe a month after your last mbuna.

Something like that.

I don't know about stocking all the colour morphs of the labs - can't see any problem with that except that they would definitely interbreed and I don't know what colours the offspring would be. If you want the yellow, blue, white mix it might be easier to find :

1 Group electric yellow labs (easiest to find usually) 1 male and 3 females

1 Group Pseudotropheus Socolofi - gives you the nice powder blue 1 male and 2 females.

1 Group of an albino either Ps. Zebra, or Socolofi, 1 male and 2 females.

A group of either iodtropheus sperengae or Pseudotropheus Acei 'Ngara' (white tailed acia) would look great with these....and you could then try your 1 victorian as well.




The haps you're looking at are Lake Victorians and are very aggressive. I don't think more than one of 'em has a high chance of working out...but if you wanted to try say....

 

[jaylin]

Lady G, I totally disagree with those who said LR won't work for African cichlids. I convered an old SW tank into an African haven not doing much more than changing the water and filtration system. The live rock did die, but it's dying off provided perfect ammonia for a fishless cycle with the new filter. I had some heavy detritus while it was cycling but it actually vaccumed up quite easly off the arragonite sand. What was left on the rocks after cycling was picked clean by the yellow labs who were the first inhabitants after the tank was cycled.

The rocks and the arragonite buffered the water out to a very nice level for africans. They loved the sandy bottom and I build up some cave looking things with the rocks. It worked great. The only problem I ended up having was a pretty nasty diatom outbreak when the tank was still quite young. But, it wasn't anything a little scraping and a few water changes couldn't fix.

So, if you want africans and have a SW tank you're going to convert - I wouldn't go spending a lot of money on anything. You don't need different sand, you don't need different rocks - you don't even *have* to clean the rocks all that well. The tank will need something to get it cycling, might as well use what you have since you don't have fish in there yet.

Anyway, that's my experience with that. I've only done it once but at least I'm not just speculating on what would happen if you did.

 

[Lady G]

So...Coler, are you saying I could actually keep ALL those in my 55? (the first list) I may drop the Hap I really would like to do a tank of all Malawi and try to make it as biotope as I can. I have wanted to do something like that for a long while..but I always ended up taking fish from ppl who didn't want them anymore and never was able to set anything up the way I really wanted. LMAO, instead of being the person everyone dropped their kitten or puppy off to I was the one they called with their sob.."if you don't take it I'll have to flush it or something" stories and yep, I couldn't let em do it. Ok, now I'm way off topic here LMAO!!! Anyway are there any Haps that are Lake Malawi?

Jaylin...how long have you had the tank set up?

 

[Lady G]

Forgot to add, I will go with only one color of the Lab, I just think they are all gorgeous!! Maybe in the future when I can re-set up my 150g, I could go all out but for now...just the one color.

Oh..what if I replaced the Hap with Aulonocara?

 

[Lady G]

OMG...soooo YAY me!!!! I just called a LFS (it is about 45 minutes from my house) anyway the closest place with both SW and FW...anyway, they will take my LR and give me in store credit. The guy said they have AC from all parts of Africa. Not sure what their stock is like will have to see when I get there...but if nothing else the store credit will help with filter supplies, rock or other tank needs if nothing else!!!!

I'm going tomorrow...so I'll see if they will let me take pics when I'm there and let ya'll know what I think of the store!

 

[mostlycichlids]

Forgot to add, I will go with only one color of the Lab, I just think they are all gorgeous!! Maybe in the future when I can re-set up my 150g, I could go all out but for now...just the one color.

Oh..what if I replaced the Hap with Aulonocara?

Haps generally do ok with Mbuna but Aulonocara don't. They are not fast enough and a lot of times will get out competed for food they are generally less aggressive. Yes you can do all those fish Coler suggested in a 55g....that is what makes a mbuna tank so nice.

 

[Lady G]

Haps generally do ok with Mbuna but Aulonocara don't. They are not fast enough and a lot of times will get out competed for food they are generally less aggressive. Yes you can do all those fish Coler suggested in a 55g....that is what makes a mbuna tank so nice.

Ok, see I was thinking that was said before about the Aulonocara, then once I found out the Haps were not Lake Malawi I thought maybe I got the 2 confused. So, no Aulonocara!!! I may take the Haps out too...I just think they are so beautiful! IDK...will have to wait and see in the end what I decide I guess.

Wow, that is great I don't have to make the extremely hard choice of which to go with, I can get em all!!!!!!!!!:headbang2: