Wouldn't using check valves on your return and pump chambers stop any backflow if one happens to become clogged and stop flooding?
Cheap PVC canister manifold for two tanks
- Thread starter CWO4GUNNER
- Start date
From what I can tell, either a blocked intake and or disharge will still result in an overflow. The two (intake/discharge) operate on different systems in your diagram, attempting to distrube/remove equal amounts of water from each tank. Should the intake become blocked, the discharge will still attempt to distrube equal amounts of water to each tank. Same is true should the discharge become blocked. Partial blocks will also do the same thing albeit in lesser quantities.
I really don't see how this could work without utilizing some float switches and electonic control valves, but that kills the economics of the idea......
Rbishop is right, you have also added head height to the fx5 which will result in diminshed flow. It's significance would have to be measured to see if it was a factor in reduced filtration capacity.
The only way I can see this working is if you had a secondary system to handle overflow conditions should they surface. The overflow would somehow have to be directed to a sump with a float switch to return the water back to the tanks. This would afford you some level of protection until you were able to remove the obstacle(s) creating the blockage.
I really don't see how this could work without utilizing some float switches and electonic control valves, but that kills the economics of the idea......
Rbishop is right, you have also added head height to the fx5 which will result in diminshed flow. It's significance would have to be measured to see if it was a factor in reduced filtration capacity.
The only way I can see this working is if you had a secondary system to handle overflow conditions should they surface. The overflow would somehow have to be directed to a sump with a float switch to return the water back to the tanks. This would afford you some level of protection until you were able to remove the obstacle(s) creating the blockage.
No, not unless they were somehow coupled together.........and then you have just cut off all filtrtion to one tank until you notice it......
Only if the system is designed in a way that the sump tank cannot handle the maximum amount of water that the siphon can draw from the display tank. This will be determined by at what level the siphon intake draws its water from the display tank.
For this reason most pre-drilled tanks are setup with skimmer type overflow system (mine included). During water changes the system is refilled with the pumps off. The tank is full when the sump tank reaches 3/4 full, preventing any of the flooding you reffer to. The main drawback of this system is the fact that larger debris tends to sink and settle on the bottom and not make it to the top to be removed by the filter. Properly placed circulation powerheads and airstones help greatly in this matter.
Check valves are installed to prevent back flow to an open system like a sump. A canister is a closed system and therefore wont leak if back flow occurs, and the aquarium which is the only other open end but which is up hill water cannot back flow up hill so check valves don't come into play or concern on a closed system only on an open system like a wet/dry sump.
The debate is when the water on the pump side of the canister leaving from the canister (red) on its way to the tanks and enters the big roomy mixing chamber where it has room to flow right and left, will the water follow the least path of least resistance, meaning if one tank is lower then the other tank by 2 inches, will this 2 inches difference in less back pressure be felt by the water in the chamber and travel proportionally to the tank with less water becasue the hoses that are half way down the aquarium feel this potential difference in pressure, like trying to breath through a longer snorkel in a pool its much much harder. In light of that water should always flow to the lower tank, always wanting to auto equalize. Just like electricity it will always take the easiest path to ground.
However the question was pointed out, why wouldn't the pump just pump out the same amount of water to both aquariums no mater which tank was full or empty?
The debate is when the water on the pump side of the canister leaving from the canister (red) on its way to the tanks and enters the big roomy mixing chamber where it has room to flow right and left, will the water follow the least path of least resistance, meaning if one tank is lower then the other tank by 2 inches, will this 2 inches difference in less back pressure be felt by the water in the chamber and travel proportionally to the tank with less water becasue the hoses that are half way down the aquarium feel this potential difference in pressure, like trying to breath through a longer snorkel in a pool its much much harder. In light of that water should always flow to the lower tank, always wanting to auto equalize. Just like electricity it will always take the easiest path to ground.
However the question was pointed out, why wouldn't the pump just pump out the same amount of water to both aquariums no mater which tank was full or empty?
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because the discharge pressure from the FX 5 in the return chamber will be greater than the head of water in either tank, even if the tanks are at different levels...the pump doesn't care where the water is going...it will suck from the one tank and shove it out...there may be marginally different amounts to the two tanks..but one will overflow.
Although it can be done with canister but by the time you make such device, it is cost ineffective.
All one need is water level sensors on each tank and actuators on the discharge manifold.
If water level goes too high on TANK A for example, sensor will trigger the actuator on dischage for TANK A thus shutting it off and as water level drops beyond programmed level, sensor will trigger the actuator to open to fill again.
Because dealing with same amt of water in closed sytem, I dont think both actuactors will ever shut at the same time.
Very similar concept as in toilet float valve or auto top off system used on sump system.
I dont think anyone want such gadgets on the tank but optic sensor are avail which may cost more than whole system.
Secondly, I strongly doubt that such filter mentioned above can properly perform filtration for 2 x 80 G.
Thus my thoughts are with Centralized Sump system for multiple tanks.
Good Luck!
Addition: I have used both floater and optic sensor in s/w when devised diy natural wave maker using containers above the tank and it worked like a charm although needed constant maintenance on gadgets due salt build up.
All one need is water level sensors on each tank and actuators on the discharge manifold.
If water level goes too high on TANK A for example, sensor will trigger the actuator on dischage for TANK A thus shutting it off and as water level drops beyond programmed level, sensor will trigger the actuator to open to fill again.
Because dealing with same amt of water in closed sytem, I dont think both actuactors will ever shut at the same time.
Very similar concept as in toilet float valve or auto top off system used on sump system.
I dont think anyone want such gadgets on the tank but optic sensor are avail which may cost more than whole system.
Secondly, I strongly doubt that such filter mentioned above can properly perform filtration for 2 x 80 G.
Thus my thoughts are with Centralized Sump system for multiple tanks.
Good Luck!
Addition: I have used both floater and optic sensor in s/w when devised diy natural wave maker using containers above the tank and it worked like a charm although needed constant maintenance on gadgets due salt build up.
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Yes the pump pressure is stronger then the standing water and the pump doesn't care, but the water that is free to move in either direction in the mixing chamber and make a choice does care becasue it is a liquid body. And even thou it is being shoved by the pump pressure that doesn't care, that pressure is cumulative in the chamber i.e. shall I go right to the full tank which has a back pressure of 20 PSI or shall I go left which has a back pressure of 17 PSI? Of course the water will and must take the path of least resistance.
A grosser example would be if you stuck your finger in the hole on one side of the mixing chamber do you really think it will not flow out the other side more?
I think Im going to try and build a tiny scale mock up with two tall glasses of water one full one half empty, some straws as hoses, 1" tubing as manifold and my mouth full of water as the pump. Ill have to gently blow from a position under the glasses not on top as this system depends on up hill pressure. But if im correct the water will flow to the half empty cup first before the full cup over flows.
Well it worked just like I expected! I took two long bendable straws with two identical tall tumblers full one full and one half full. Set them on the kitchen counter them got on my knees so that my mouth was positioned below the water line of the tallest glass and gently blew a mouth full of water into both straws simultaneously. the full tumbler never changed until the lower lever tumbler matched up, at that point the water levels in both tumblers moved up together.
Go ahead and try it, just remember the straws must be at the bottom or even near the bottom of both tumblers and your mouth must be lower then the full tumbler and you have to blow gently on both straws in your moth simultaneously without preferential influence which would be proportional to a pump on two large aquariums coming from the mixing chamber. Of course if you spit the water out full blast to prove a point it would be like using a 1000 PSI pump on an aquarium or dam break at the mouth of a river, all bets are off.
Well it worked just like I expected! I took two long bendable straws with two identical tall tumblers full one full and one half full. Set them on the kitchen counter them got on my knees so that my mouth was positioned below the water line of the tallest glass and gently blew a mouth full of water into both straws simultaneously. the full tumbler never changed until the lower lever tumbler matched up, at that point the water levels in both tumblers moved up together.
Go ahead and try it, just remember the straws must be at the bottom or even near the bottom of both tumblers and your mouth must be lower then the full tumbler and you have to blow gently on both straws in your moth simultaneously without preferential influence which would be proportional to a pump on two large aquariums coming from the mixing chamber. Of course if you spit the water out full blast to prove a point it would be like using a 1000 PSI pump on an aquarium or dam break at the mouth of a river, all bets are off.
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