Cory eating POOP?

[Fungi]

I don't think so, coprophagy is, as easilyconfused said, common to many species. Humans, dogs and now cories are all capable of consuming excrement for different reasons. The arguments presented by Beasts and easilyconfused are compelling, more so than others. I understand that cories' barbels are sensitive and act as almost external tongues, almost like flies' feet, but for reasons unknown to me (though maybe to others) they may choose to ingest it...

I don't think it's entirely certain that cories never have, don't and never will consume feaces, just because we have evolved past the stage where it is kosher (for want of a better word) does not mean that other species do not do so.

It does not, however, nor is anyone suggesting that cories are not fed with tubifex, sinking pellets and algae discs, they need them for a varied diet with neccessary vitamins and aminos, they can't get it all from feaces, nor would they in their natural environment. They are after all, sifters and consumers of detritus so what else could we expect?

Just my two senses on the matter (sight and smell)

 

[janetdc1]

Are people not feeding their fish enough so they have to follow around other fish eating their poop, I have never seen any fish do that before. This whole debate is so ridiculous.

hmmm-just to clarify, I feed my platys and mollies twice a day and believe me they are not underfed.
They are pretty plump, in fact- and evidently healthy as they keep giving me more and more babies.

 

[J double R]

call me a non-believer, call me 'mistaken', call me what you will, but I will stand by my word that corydoras catfish (fish in general, really) do NOT eat fecal matter. You can say what you think you saw, you;d be surprised at how long a fish will take to spit something out.

If your fish are pooping something that is appetizing and nutritional enough that the others are EATING it, then there is either something wrong with the fish's digestive system, or they are being GROSSLY overfed, as that would be the only reason fish would pass undigested food.

 

[WeeNe858]

why is it that some people are against the fact that some fishes will occationally eat poo... i think the majority of us are saying that we do feed out fishes well and that wee occationally see them nibbling away at it.. but that doesint mean they soley feed off of poop.

it seems that the word poop means waste and thats all there is to it but theres can be some "stuff" left which can intrest the fish in tasting it...


in the fishes world its eat or be eating and they just take advantage of what nutrition is left or found.

 

[janetdc1]

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/7/m007p253.pdf

just an interesting article.

oh- and here's one more.
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=13076&cid=3790&search=

ugh- I am finished with the "poop" debate.LOL!
The fish are beautiful no matter what-
They bring me much joy and I love watching their antics- could have done without the visual on the coprophagy, though!!!!LOL!
To me, as long as they are healthy and seem happy in their little fishy worlds, I'm not gonna worry about it.
As for the Corys, they are cute little guys and I look forward to adding 3 or 4 to my son's tank in a few weeks, when he upgrades to a 20 gallon.
But I get them because they are cute, and that's about it.
Have a great week everyone!

 

[easilyconfused]

If your fish are pooping something that is appetizing and nutritional enough that the others are EATING it, then there is either something wrong with the fish's digestive system, or they are being GROSSLY overfed, as that would be the only reason fish would pass undigested food.

Feces isn't just undigested "waste" food. There are microbial protien which is some of the highest quality protein in amino acid balance. There are also the products of microbial fermentation, namely volitile fatty acids which are another source of energy. Ruminants live on what monogastrics can't digest, namely cellulose, hemicellulose and to a lesser extent Lignin, due to the fact that microbes are able to break them down and ferment them to volitile fatty acids and microbial protein. When you feed a Ruminant, you have to actually feed those microbes because they completely alter anything that isn't protected from them, which is more costly than maximizing the microbial population. Fish have the same thing going on. The fact that they have intestinal microbes shows that there is material that the host, ie) fish, can't utilize. The microbes can however and use it to synthesize various B-vitamins, which ONLY microbes can synthesize the majority of, and they are a high quality source of protein. On top of that, the intestine has one of the highest cellular turnover, as well as various enzymatic secretions that get excreted. That's more protein. NOT just waste like most people think.

Another interesting fact is that they've found that a healthy intestinal microflora may be important in maintaining intestinal villus height and enterocyte turnover, which is important not only for nutrient absorption but the enterocyte turnover also protects the host from invading pathogens by shedding infected cells before they can colonize better.

Was only able to read the one paper posted Janet but it looked interesting.

Now back to studying for Pharmacology and then Gut physiology! Anybody what to study microbiology for me?

 

[J double R]

Feces isn't just undigested "waste" food. There are microbial protien which is some of the highest quality protein in amino acid balance. There are also the products of microbial fermentation, namely volitile fatty acids which are another source of energy. Ruminants live on what monogastrics can't digest, namely cellulose, hemicellulose and to a lesser extent Lignin, due to the fact that microbes are able to break them down and ferment them to volitile fatty acids and microbial protein. When you feed a Ruminant, you have to actually feed those microbes because they completely alter anything that isn't protected from them, which is more costly than maximizing the microbial population. Fish have the same thing going on. The fact that they have intestinal microbes shows that there is material that the host, ie) fish, can't utilize. The microbes can however and use it to synthesize various B-vitamins, which ONLY microbes can synthesize the majority of, and they are a high quality source of protein. On top of that, the intestine has one of the highest cellular turnover, as well as various enzymatic secretions that get excreted. That's more protein. NOT just waste like most people think.

Another interesting fact is that they've found that a healthy intestinal microflora may be important in maintaining intestinal villus height and enterocyte turnover, which is important not only for nutrient absorption but the enterocyte turnover also protects the host from invading pathogens by shedding infected cells before they can colonize better.

Was only able to read the one paper posted Janet but it looked interesting.

Now back to studying for Pharmacology and then Gut physiology! Anybody what to study microbiology for me?

I'll buy the rest of the paragraph(s), but not that first statement. I didn't say that feces was comprised solely of undigested food. I said that if it WAS, then there was something wrong.

 

[easilyconfused]

I'll buy the rest of the paragraph(s), but not that first statement. I didn't say that feces was comprised solely of undigested food. I said that if it WAS, then there was something wrong. [/quote

Sorry, I meant to say undigested or indigestible. It is entirely normal for there to be nutrients left over. It's not all indigestible food passsed in the feces. No food is 100% absorbed, hence why we use digestible energy instead of gross energy of the feed when formulating diets. There will always be some that is not absorbed and, some that can't be absobed by monogastrics without fermentation by microbes. Those microbes can make them available however. As well, microbes can take otherwise unusable nitrogen and fix it as protein, just like they can fix it as Nitrates and other safe forms during cycling.

If you look at the fish feed ingredients, you'll notice many plant ingredients are in there. Plants are extremely variable in digestibilty depending on the starch and sugars to "fiber" ratio. Fiber can be broken into digestible in varying degrees by microbes and completely indigestible which is what people think all feces is made up of. The microbes can break down the cellulose, not only to usable products such as volitile fatty acids and protein, but also break down the matrix cellulose and lignin create that can lower the digestibility of an otherwise highly digestible feed. For example from terestrial animals, wheat and barley have similar gross energies. However, barley has a much lower digestible energy for monogastrics since they cannot break down the cellulose and other non-mammalian digestible carbohydrates. Once that matrix is broken, then the host's enzymes can get at the sugars that they can digest, increasing the digestibility.

As well, microbes also produce some essential amino acids that plants can't provide and they can only get from microbes or meat.

Moral of the story after that rant, Unless they have forestomachs and are pre-gastric fermenters, which I don't think they do, they likely perform coprophagy like every other hindgut fermentor on land to gain the advantage of those microbes they are feeding.

If I had time I'd look into the comparative digestive anatomy and see if there is any literature on differences in herbivorus and carnivorus fish. I would suspect the herbivores would have a longer intestinal tract and possibly some more development in the cecum and ascending colon area.

You also have to take into account individual fish personalities. Just because you haven't seen it in your fish doesn't mean you have a representative population. Just like your dog might not run around eating feces, or your neighbors, mine does on the farm with ad lib feed, especially from a horse, likely because of the hindgut fermentation.

Little off topic but I don't get to stretch my Nutrition knowledge enough in this college.