Discus
- Thread starter NeonFlux
- Start date
That doesn't add up to me either. Mine seem to be doing much better in the planted tank than any other setup I have had them in. I see no biological or chemical reasons for it at all.
when you are trying to achieve optimal growth of Discus..the parameters to attain the growth is only good for the discus.
ie water temp 82-86 lots of food, lots of water changes.
the plants need more and many cannot survive in the climate more suited for optimal growth of Discus.
while plants can help 'clean' water..this is a loose term. they will not get all they need from the food or waste produced by the Discus.
the plants should be getting supplements fo help they thrive..this in turn creates water that is not optimal for the growth of the Discus. which requires several feedings per day and the removal of the uneaten food to help maintain a good environment for growth. even adult discus should be fed several times per day..their physiology is set with high metabolism and small stomachs..they are 'grazers' and search and eat constantly. this can creat a condtion where waste will foul the water and water changes are needed.
these water changes will in turn create less than prime conditions for the plants.
simply put..there is a trade off.
if you want healthy plants then you will sacrifice growth of the Discus.
if you want healthy growth of the discus then the plants will sacrifice .
keep in mind that Discus in their natural environemt thrive in low light heavy cover of driftwood and generally little to no plant live.what some will do is raise the discus in grow out bare bottom tanks..then move them to planted tanks. as adults grow more slowly than do the juveniles.
ie water temp 82-86 lots of food, lots of water changes.
the plants need more and many cannot survive in the climate more suited for optimal growth of Discus.
while plants can help 'clean' water..this is a loose term. they will not get all they need from the food or waste produced by the Discus.
the plants should be getting supplements fo help they thrive..this in turn creates water that is not optimal for the growth of the Discus. which requires several feedings per day and the removal of the uneaten food to help maintain a good environment for growth. even adult discus should be fed several times per day..their physiology is set with high metabolism and small stomachs..they are 'grazers' and search and eat constantly. this can creat a condtion where waste will foul the water and water changes are needed.
these water changes will in turn create less than prime conditions for the plants.
simply put..there is a trade off.
if you want healthy plants then you will sacrifice growth of the Discus.
if you want healthy growth of the discus then the plants will sacrifice .
keep in mind that Discus in their natural environemt thrive in low light heavy cover of driftwood and generally little to no plant live.what some will do is raise the discus in grow out bare bottom tanks..then move them to planted tanks. as adults grow more slowly than do the juveniles.
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I agree plants do help with water conditions..but only to an extent.
if plants could eliminate waste then we could achieve homeostasis on a closed environment..but the plants themselves are only a small part of the cycle.
some solids or dissolved organics are not removed by plants..these are what accumulate and need to be removed..
even in heavily planted tanks where supplements(macro nutrients) are added..these are controlled with large weekly water changes..
having fish alone will not add all the nutrients plants need.
Plants will help, period. Specifically with keeping water quality up.
The ideal setup for each may be different, but that does not mean that it is not a good idea to put plants in a discus tank. You may not want to use certain supplements, but this simply means your plants will not do as good as they possibly could, not that they won't do very well in with the discus. If you use hardy, low light plants they will do fine.
Discus are from the Amazon River. This is not a river devoid of fish except for discus. There are MANY species of fish and plants in the same exact waters as discus. There are many species than can be kept with them and both will thrive.
The ideal setup for each may be different, but that does not mean that it is not a good idea to put plants in a discus tank. You may not want to use certain supplements, but this simply means your plants will not do as good as they possibly could, not that they won't do very well in with the discus. If you use hardy, low light plants they will do fine.
Discus are from the Amazon River. This is not a river devoid of fish except for discus. There are MANY species of fish and plants in the same exact waters as discus. There are many species than can be kept with them and both will thrive.
reptileguy
this is getting off topic..if you want to discuss this feel free to contact me.
or start another thread.
BTW, Discus inhabit the Amazon Basin..which include the Amazon river, smaller rivers, lakes and ponds. most of thier natural habitat is devoid of plant life save some dwarf grasses and in some cases water lilies, cabomba and eleocharis.
I never said plants didn't help..just simply they cannot nor should not be thought of as a way of skipping water changes..especially when considering discus.
the fact of the matter is that optimal Discus growth is found more in Bare bottom tanks with larger , frequent water changes. normal Discus are 4-7" while optimal growth is found in these bare bottom tanks with discus approaching 10"
this is getting off topic..if you want to discuss this feel free to contact me.
or start another thread.
BTW, Discus inhabit the Amazon Basin..which include the Amazon river, smaller rivers, lakes and ponds. most of thier natural habitat is devoid of plant life save some dwarf grasses and in some cases water lilies, cabomba and eleocharis.
I never said plants didn't help..just simply they cannot nor should not be thought of as a way of skipping water changes..especially when considering discus.
the fact of the matter is that optimal Discus growth is found more in Bare bottom tanks with larger , frequent water changes. normal Discus are 4-7" while optimal growth is found in these bare bottom tanks with discus approaching 10"
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The river and system are not lacking in plant life.
I don't think anyone said more plants means less water changes. They simply help keep the water even better between changes. Sand is just as good for keeping clean as bare bottom. With sand there is nothing keeping plants out. They are fine with big frequent water changes. Mine are. They get 80% every week.
Power growth in discus does not necessarily mean it was any better for them. It can easily lead to malformed, disproportionate individuals.
In these faster growing discus, what size are they are one and two years of age? At what age and size do they start breeding?
I don't think anyone said more plants means less water changes. They simply help keep the water even better between changes. Sand is just as good for keeping clean as bare bottom. With sand there is nothing keeping plants out. They are fine with big frequent water changes. Mine are. They get 80% every week.
Power growth in discus does not necessarily mean it was any better for them. It can easily lead to malformed, disproportionate individuals.
In these faster growing discus, what size are they are one and two years of age? At what age and size do they start breeding?
the problem comes form inferring that plants reduce nitrates. some novice take that as better quality water and the addition of plants = less need to do water changes.
yes the rivers lakes and streams are not devoid of plants..but the areas where discus frequent are blackwater low light and heavily stocked with root tangles. dead fall and debris from trees etc.
take a look at their habitat..much of it is devoid of plants..the discus seek the driftwood tangles for cover. many times their habitat looks uninhabitable.
yet the discus thrive in these waters.
do some discus live in areas with plants..yes..there are areas where Discus live that have plant life.the Discus will seek these areas to get out of the light.
power feeding may lead to disformed fish as well as not feeding enough.but properly fed they should not be disformed unless their is a genetic flaw.
their physiology is set up for frequent feedings..why have large disc shaped bodies..their metabolism is fast and they have proportionately small stomachs..they are grazers and feed often..it makes sense to feed them several small meals..
their bodies should be dish shaped with their eyes in proportion to their bodies. if they have slanted foreheads it usually indicates a fish that is lacking in food..stunted.
sand is a good substrate and is even the substrate found in the natural habitat..but sand has it's own inherent problems of compacting and forming gas pockets.
I would say yes it is easy to maintain when done correctly..but bare bottom is even easier..and you can keep plants in pots in bare bottom tanks. as many discus keepers do.
yes the rivers lakes and streams are not devoid of plants..but the areas where discus frequent are blackwater low light and heavily stocked with root tangles. dead fall and debris from trees etc.
take a look at their habitat..much of it is devoid of plants..the discus seek the driftwood tangles for cover. many times their habitat looks uninhabitable.
yet the discus thrive in these waters.
do some discus live in areas with plants..yes..there are areas where Discus live that have plant life.the Discus will seek these areas to get out of the light.
power feeding may lead to disformed fish as well as not feeding enough.but properly fed they should not be disformed unless their is a genetic flaw.
their physiology is set up for frequent feedings..why have large disc shaped bodies..their metabolism is fast and they have proportionately small stomachs..they are grazers and feed often..it makes sense to feed them several small meals..
their bodies should be dish shaped with their eyes in proportion to their bodies. if they have slanted foreheads it usually indicates a fish that is lacking in food..stunted.
sand is a good substrate and is even the substrate found in the natural habitat..but sand has it's own inherent problems of compacting and forming gas pockets.
I would say yes it is easy to maintain when done correctly..but bare bottom is even easier..and you can keep plants in pots in bare bottom tanks. as many discus keepers do.
