Favorite Guns

[daveedka]

Forget both, go with a .40.

I personally would advise the .40 be avoided. Obviously to each their own, and the best test is to go to the range and do some shooting. People like what they like, so if .40 ends up being the one you like great but:

Here are my thoughts and experiences:
9mm is a small caliber low power round like the 38 special (Ballistically it's almost identical) Small caliber low power rounds are not good for much of anything but range shooting. So if you wish for anything other than a fun gun to shoot at the range I would discount the 9mm. Our police officers are far too often forced to carry 9's, because for some reason the .45 is considered too dangerous to shoot someone with (I don't get it) The .40 has become very popular because it is far superior to the 9 mm, but doesn't have the negative political stigma that the .45 has. In other words the .40 does the job but for some reason people aren't as scared of it. If I had to chose between a 9mm and a .40 I'd definately go with the .357 Sig.

Every .40 I ever shot had as much or more recoil than the same model pistol in .45 ACP. So to me you give up some size and power while still tolerating the recoil and noise. The .45 ACP is a long standing proven round, The .40 is by all respects a good round. but all things being equal why give up the size and power while still tolerating the noise and recoil.

You can get higher capacity magazines in 9mm and .40, but then if you have enough power to do the job in the first place, additional extra ammo isn't a concern.

Either way the .40 and .45 are both good rounds, I just can't see ever owning a .40.

Another option to look at would be the .357 sig. I've only fired a handfull of them, but the seem to have all the pros of the .357 mag without the recoil, and they feed well through a semi auto.

I generally do all of my recoil testing with my Daughter. I don't notice the subtle differences as well as she does. She handles her .45 well enough, but likes the .357 sig much better. She did not at all like the .40

Dave

 

[UncaBret]

I generally do all of my recoil testing with my Daughter. I don't notice the subtle differences as well as she does. She handles her .45 well enough, but likes the .357 sig much better. She did not at all like the .40

Dave

I bought the 586+ for my daughter to shoot, she got bored of the .22 after her first session and started on my .45 and 10mm revolvers! I've mixed .38s and .357s in it and she can't tell the difference.

 

[slipknottin]

Hmm...well, I'd have to say an m203 grenade launcher...or maybe an RPG-17...

You can own those legally..

 

[slipknottin]

Every .40 I ever shot had as much or more recoil than the same model pistol in .45 ACP. So to me you give up some size and power while still tolerating the recoil and noise. The .45 ACP is a long standing proven round, The .40 is by all respects a good round. but all things being equal why give up the size and power while still tolerating the noise and recoil.

The recoil is just different IMO, the .45 pushes you back more, the .40 snaps upwards more. If you practice with the .40 enough, you can easily deal with the recoil.

 

[UncaBret]

Where's Native American? I figured he'd be weighing in on this one.

 

[DirkW]

The recoil is just different IMO, the .45 pushes you back more, the .40 snaps upwards more. If you practice with the .40 enough, you can easily deal with the recoil.

The biggest difference in recoil in my experience is between revolvers and semi-auto's. All else being equal, a really hot load is easier to handle on a revolver. A Black Hawk .44 mag just feel right when you loosen your grip on the bottom two fingers, let the barrel come up, and the handle slides along the web between your thumb and index finger. But if you fire more than a dozen rounds, it sure helps to wear a glove.

You can lessen the kick on any gun by porting the barrel. It's a common modification for combat pistol competitors.

 

[125gJoe]

I still wonder...........

45cal.

or,

9mm..


?
____________________

 

[DirkW]

9mm is a small caliber low power round like the 38 special (Ballistically it's almost identical) Small caliber low power rounds are not good for much of anything but range shooting. So if you wish for anything other than a fun gun to shoot at the range I would discount the 9mm. Our police officers are far too often forced to carry 9's, because for some reason the .45 is considered too dangerous to shoot someone with (I don't get it)

I don't carry consealed, but if I needed to, I'd be quite comfortable carrying a 9mm. When it comes to personal protection, you don't need to fall small trees or fire a round into an engine block. All you need to do is fire quickly and accurately. A .22LR hollow point would be suitable in 95% of live fire situations. If you want stopping power, use a 12G shotgun with buckshot or a rifled slug. If you want penetration, use an AR-15 with jacketed rounds. For me, handguns are all about fun on the range!

 

[slipknottin]

I still wonder...........

45cal.

or,

9mm..


?
____________________

9mm is whimpy IMHO.

I use .40 or .45, depending on how i want to carry.

 

[daveedka]

Joe, If you have to decide between the .45 and the 9mm, Find someone who'll let you shoot both at the range and then buy yourself a .45 ACP. Or just take the high road and buy one of each.
My personal Experience is that A 9 doesn't have enough pwer to serve as a self defense weapon. I know personally of one istance where a mans wallet cought quite a few 9mm bullets. The wallet was in his chest pocket and effectively stopped every round the officers put into the wallet. Fortunately for those officers they did not hit the wallet every time but had they the results could have been hazardous. If something as simple a leather wallet will stop a 9 mm, I don't wish to trust my life to it, and don't think our officers should be forced to either. One of those officers was a family memeber, and it did nothing to help his opinion of the 9mm.
The 9mm is one of the biggest reasons the .40 has become popular with Law enforcement. The military did the same experiments years ago with the 38 and the .45 ACP. Military personel could actually shoot and kill attackers with .38's and still end up dead because the .38 would not stop the attacker. The .45 ACP provided enough energy to actually stop the attack and protect the person using it.

The films several years ago of LA's finest Shooting it out with fully armored bank robbers was the real Tell tale view. The 9mm did not carry enough impact to knock an armored man down. Shooting through the armor would not have been necessary to incapacitate the bank robbers. knocking them down would have sufficed to at least help the situation. A .45 ACP fired into a Kevlar Vest will produce enough energy transfer to knock most men down. Multiple rounds from multiple officers would have definately put a stop to the situation in LA that day. There were plenty of opportunities for precision shooting with a 9 mm but in the situation trained practiced law enforcement officers were not capable of pinpointing their shot that perfectly. It seems likely that in a tense situation It may be hard to hit a target perfectly every time. The men Wearing the armor that day knew exactly what the Officers had to work with and they were not even scared of being shot with 9 mm's.

In any case if a range gun is all you are after, then the 9 would be great. I own a couple of 9's and several .38 specials that go to the range frequently. They are inexpensive and enjoyable with paper targets.

If it's a self defense weapon (In a pistol of course) then something larger would serve better. To Ad lib (I can't quote verbatum it's been too long) Colonel Jeff Cooper. With the recent popularity in small caliber self defense weapons, it would seem fitting that someone design a moving target the size of a ping pong ball so people could become proficient at perfectly hitting targets the size of the human eye


and DirkW I definately agree for close range stopping power the 12ga shotgun is about as good as it gets. It's just really hard to get the old double barrel in the shoulder holster.

dave