How Freshwater Deep Sand Beds Work

[Gammarus]

*2 cent deposit*
If your looking for the really tiny critters, a mud puddle might work, honestly that's where I got my various water fleas originally like a year ago for all my tanks. Although it was clear water in grass not actually muddy. Planaria may also come from outside. I cannot find a lfs that will sell it, so I'm getting a bunch out of the creek when the water goes down.
Scuds, and other small inverts may also come out of a ditch or small stagnant pool.
Tiny white nematodes come in on plants, and other outside sources. They are harmless, and just crawl around decomposing things, and multiplying.
I would wait for further info from master Dee.





My main lfs cannot get black worms, its in their contract. Their supplier has but refuses to sell them. Think it has something to do about them raising them themselves, idk. Need to look elsewhere or find a natural source of critters that fill the niche. On the upside, They had plants on sale, and i added more anarchis, and a few other things, including micro sword, to my sand bed. I had to move some cabomba, which hurt me inside, but wow, what a root system already. It was a beautiful white tangled mess. They barely grew for about a week then BAM, half an inch over night. Just got established and I moved them :/
Because the 20gallon is on an old open metal stand, I can take a flash light and monitor the progress of dark spots on the very bottom of the tank! Most of it is still a light brown sand color. However just under the cabomba where I stuck pellet food, the sand has become a...healthy gray. RIGHT under those tangled roots.
Added 4 ghost shrimp to watch something swim, and to make sure the environment is ok for shrimp, my cherries arrive next week hopefully
I think being able to see the entire underside of the sand bed will be very beneficial. Ill be able to see if any roots go down the full 4 inches, watch for inverts (if i get any) and monitor the dark pockets. Most importantly, watch for massive black spots.
I've been talking about this so much that my dad and aunt now want to set up new aquariums!!!

 

[ducatigirl]

So glad you posted than, anoxia and dee. I only put a handful or two in on top, mainly to try and cover the black worm tails from gold ram.lol
It didnt work. I dont think.
So I'm glad it wasnt much sand. I gave it a light vacuum without disturbing anything. I hjad to been treating white spot, day three, need to vac up any fallen bugs.
The only change in my readings today was ph. it was up to 8.8.

 

[DeeDeeK]

Dee- i have read your article and find it quite fascinating! I was wondering where I would be able to get a "starter" of the creatures that live in the freshwater sandbed. i am about to double the depth of my substrate so that it will be deep enough to have a fw sand bed

FIRST: though you haven't had a fw deep sand bed, you do have a fw sand bed. And that sand bed is currently host to many nitrifying bacteria which you will suffocate with the next layer of sand and depending on your bioload and how much nitrifying capacity the bacteria in your power filter have, you are in for a cycle. I recently went through the same thing. I suggest removing a lot of the uppermost layer of your current sand bed, laying down the new sand, and then spreading or sprinkling the old upper layer across the new sand in order to keep sufficient nitrifiers in contact with the water column. Yes it's a pain in the neck.

SECOND: I think Grammarus's suggestions for finding the right li'l critters is a good one. But you know, you aren't restricted to my or anyone's suggestions for animal species to introduce; any animal which fulfills the right function(s) will do. One function is to break down mulm into smaller and smaller bits so it will infiltrate the sand quicker. Another is to enhance oxygenation of the sand bed by burrowing (which also helps introduce mulm into the sand bed quicker). Without any creatures doing these things, the DSB will still function, just at less capacity. So long as you've chosen a good, largish-grained, loose packing sand and the bioload isn't too high, it'll work. Plants which develop extensive root systems will enhance its ability to nullify toxins like hydrogen sulfide which may form within it.

The DSB works because of diffusion through the sand of dissolved gasses, minerals, organic compounds, and other chemicals as well as the infiltration of the sand by particles of solid organic matter. Bacteria work on them and in the end the majority of what goes in comes out as CO2, H2O, and a few other chemicals. The plants and animals of the DSB enhance how quickly a DSB can process such and such an amount of waste and in the case of plants, where in the bed that waste can be processed as well as absorbing certain of the chemicals (SO4, PO4, iron, manganese, etc.) to be found in the sand bed.

So, good loose sand and sufficient plants ought to work. Blackworms, mts, planaria, scuds, shrimps, etc. will serve to improve but are not absolutely needed.

 

[DeeDeeK]

*2 cent deposit*

I've been talking about this so much that my dad and aunt now want to set up new aquariums!!!

That is so cool! Aquariums are so much more interesting when though of as living systems!

LONG LIVE THE BIG, BLACK SPOTS!

 

[Anoxia]

Dee- I was wondering where I would be able to get a "starter" of the creatures that live in the freshwater sandbed.

If you do a search for "biological supply" you can shop online for all those critters, and have them shipped to you. Most biological supply places carry at least daphnia, planaria, and either tubifex or blackworms. My favorite is "Sachs System Aquaculture" www.aquaculturestore.com they have a huge variety of freshwater invertibrates. Or, you can always just see what you can find in a puddle for free!

 

[ducatigirl]

You were right about adding more sand! Big ammonia spike!
The day before ammonia read 0, a day later it was .5, and I lost a little angel.
Have done 2 wc last night. Will test again in an hour when its day light.
It was not very much sand but it did spread over about an 8th of the tank, even though it was thin. Honestly I thought I would be ok, but very relieved you are so thorough with your information, so I know exactly why it happened. Thank you!

 

[Anoxia]

Sorry your angelfish died, I hope you can get through the new cycle without any more losses. They say doing a lot of water changes will make the nitrogen cycle take longer to establish, but in my case that's what I had to do to protect my fish until it was over. Since a new cycle has already started anyways, maybe you could use this as an opportunity to get the sand bed as deep as you had wanted it. Just a thought.

 

[ducatigirl]

Thanks.
The sand bed is deep enough, I only added sand thinking all the crap ontop would then be underneath, and also to protect the black worms.
there might have been another reason for the ammonia, I just found a gold ram under some driftwood Might have got stuck in the java moss. It survived a month of ich treatments only to die like that, makes me sad.
Do you think black worms can cause any deaths? Like if they are diseased?
I have to do another water change unfortunately. I have to rid the tank of any ich freeswimming. Lost alot of fish in this tank. Have 3 large angels left, and 2 gold rams, and 3 honey gouramis. Will get this ammonia as low as possible.
Do you have any experience with ammo lock? Would that disturb the cycle?
I think it had to be the dead fish, because last nights WC didnt change the ammonia, cos the fish was still in there.

 

[DeeDeeK]

Thanks.
The sand bed is deep enough, I only added sand thinking all the crap ontop would then be underneath, and also to protect the black worms.

Well, the crap on top should be allowed to disintegrate (snails, planaria, shrimp, scuds, etc., help break it down into smaller particles) and it will then work its way into the sand on its own. Unless tons of mulm and crap are being produced, a reasonable equilibrium should establish itself. If the crud keeps building up beyond your tolerance, than vacuum, holding the vacuum above the sand so that it only sucks in the crud. The blackworms like to stick their tails out of the sand to absorb maximum oxygen (their heads are often in anaerobic areas and depends on O2 in its blood) so they'll just pop up again if you bury them.



Do you think black worms can cause any deaths? Like if they are diseased?
blackworms are know for and favored over tubifex worms by many for harboring very few parasites or diseases which will infect fish. Of course, antisocial worms, especially teenagers, can roam in gangs and harass the elderly and other vulnerable folks.:joke:


Do you have any experience with ammo lock? Would that disturb the cycle?
I think it had to be the dead fish, because last nights WC didnt change the ammonia, cos the fish was still in there.

No experience with ammo lock here but if you want to intervene chemically, I'd recommend Amquel Plus, which eliminates ammonia (rather than turning it into ammonium it chemically binds with it) without interrupting the ammonia cycle because bacteria can eat the new molecules' ammonia fraction. It also does something similar with nitrite and nitrate - I've found it effective and less likely to kill things than, say, a high dose of Prime, which I consider inferior in ammonia and nitrite eliminating ability. It's strange the WC didn't change the ammonia level. Did you measure immediately before and after? If so, does your tap water contain ammonia or chloramines which release ammonia when treated with water conditioners? Because removing half the water including the ammonia in it and replacing it with water without ammonia WILL dilute the ammonia by 1/2. Period. The dead fish of course would be a source of ammonia but so are living fish (it comes out of their gills) and decaying fish poo and rotting uneaten fishfood and mulm. So, you may have diluted the ammonia but the various sources would have replenished it and will continue to until sufficient nitrifying bacteria have established themselves in the upper layer of the sand bed to eat the ammonia as fast as it's generated.

Now that you've got a deep enough layer of sand, STOP MUCKING AROUND! Plant it, add critters, etc., but leave the sand bed itself alone!

Good luck:thumbsup:

 

[DeeDeeK]

TOOTING MY OWN HORN!

I recently wrote an article for "Conscientious Aquarist" magazine, an online publication of wetwebmedia.com. They just published it in their current edition!

The article is an EXTREMELY abbreviated summary of this thread, with an emphasis on the broad picture of how a freshwater DSB works and how to set up a particular sort - big grainy sand, plants & critters, mulmy and with decaying root systems. I tried to isolate the basic principles and practices which will lead to a healthy, functional freshwater DSB.

The cover page:http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/welcome.html

My article:http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/dsb.html

Anoxia, you deserve my thanks and recognition for your wonderful feedback on the earlier drafts, which helped me craft something "Conscientious Aquarist" would publish!:thumbsup: