How Freshwater Deep Sand Beds Work
- Thread starter DeeDeeK
- Start date
congratulations Dee! you really deserve it you did work quite hard to get this to go the distance it has. It is people like you that are causing this hobby to constantly become more and more diverse and interesting. Yay for the fusion of biology with casual aquarium keeping!
Hey guys!
I recommended planarians for the freshwater DSB without knowing that some are poisonous, predatory, and may kill shrimp, shrimplets, and fry.
I wrote a big rant/apology in the 7gallon picosystem thread I initiated, at the bottom of page 4 but let me apologize here for inadequately researching planarians - specifically ignoring posts re. planarians in the forums I saw while googling the topic. I just hope nobody loses any livestock over this.
I still think they're good for fish tanks, so long as there isn't any purposeful breeding happening in them or at least the planarians numbers are limited and low.
Diminish planarians' number by restricting food so there's no extra for them to eat. Or put a bit of liver in a small jar you can lay on its side on the substrate and they'll pour into it overnight. Dispose in the AM before they slink off to hide. Or use fenbendazole (see http://www.planetinverts.com/killing_planaria_and_hydra.html )
I recommended planarians for the freshwater DSB without knowing that some are poisonous, predatory, and may kill shrimp, shrimplets, and fry.
I wrote a big rant/apology in the 7gallon picosystem thread I initiated, at the bottom of page 4 but let me apologize here for inadequately researching planarians - specifically ignoring posts re. planarians in the forums I saw while googling the topic. I just hope nobody loses any livestock over this.
I still think they're good for fish tanks, so long as there isn't any purposeful breeding happening in them or at least the planarians numbers are limited and low.
Diminish planarians' number by restricting food so there's no extra for them to eat. Or put a bit of liver in a small jar you can lay on its side on the substrate and they'll pour into it overnight. Dispose in the AM before they slink off to hide. Or use fenbendazole (see http://www.planetinverts.com/killing_planaria_and_hydra.html )
I am looking to set up my own variation of a fresh water DSB. Would you provide more details about how Justin's approach differs from yours? Your DSB tank has inspired me to try one.
so do you consider a plenum to be another 'type' of anoxic dsb layer? Having kept fish for over 35 years and following my dad who always used ugf's I have chuckled to myself at all the threads that ug will kill your fish, must be entirely removed every couple of years or will kill everything. I have always gone off of my gut/observation/research that if allowed toxins will be converted to inert compounds which in the case of a planted dsb are then re-used by the plants and the cycle continues.
back to my original ?, would you consider a ugf/plenum to perform the same role as the deeper layers of dsb? (or very similar role)
back to my original ?, would you consider a ugf/plenum to perform the same role as the deeper layers of dsb? (or very similar role)
I'm thinking of doing a DSB in a 155 gallon bowfront I just picked up, I posted a thread about it and was directed here. So I have many questions.
Has a DSB been done on that scale in freshwater before?
Would a terrace (say a 2 foot section that was 4 inches deep walled off with slate) improve or harm the DSB's effectiveness?
Do objects on teh surface of the DSB impede efficiency? (Say I just placed a large piece of slate flat on the top of the sand, would the area under it be strangled?)
How much filtration do I need and what type, I have 2 eheim 2217's (with pads, no media though). How should I set them up?
I thank you for any advice you can offer.
Has a DSB been done on that scale in freshwater before?
Would a terrace (say a 2 foot section that was 4 inches deep walled off with slate) improve or harm the DSB's effectiveness?
Do objects on teh surface of the DSB impede efficiency? (Say I just placed a large piece of slate flat on the top of the sand, would the area under it be strangled?)
How much filtration do I need and what type, I have 2 eheim 2217's (with pads, no media though). How should I set them up?
I thank you for any advice you can offer.
I think that ugfs and plenums have things in common with DSBs but in the case of the ugf, oxygenated water generally makes it all the way through so the only anoxix/anaerobic activity taking place is within any pores in the gravel or within the biofilm which covers almost everything in the tank, which has been shown to harbor both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in close quarters, apparently the anaerobic bugs are sheilded by the slow movement of O2 through the slime and the aerobic bugs sucking it all up faster than it can reach the anaerobic guys.
Plenums seem uneccesary, having less surface area than sand. They provide a denitrifying environment as does the sand, but lack what the sand has in terms of fertiziling potential for rooted plants. I think there's more but I'm typing fast and in a hurry. Anyhow, functionally, they're related to a point. Sand is easier by far, I'd hazard.
The terrace you mention will cause no harm. I've seen fresh water DSBs about seven inches deep all over work just fine. Sand is amazing in that the bacterial colonies within it fine a healthy equilibrium (healthy for plants and fish and shrimp, etc.) so readily. Remember, put the sand down and leave it be until you're ready to really relandscape and then just move your fauna until you're done and the tank's had time to stabilize - test for ammonia, etc. SO2 will oxidize very quickly and be gone well before the ammonia.
My LFS owner keeps 200gal tanks with sand beds from 3 to about 5 inches deep. No problems.
A big solid object on the sand will probably have an anoxic region under it towards the middle, surrounded by anaerobic sand, surrounded by a bit of oxygen-rich (relatively) sand extending under the edges. No problem, but does cut into the NH3/NH4/NO2 gobbling capacity. In a 155 gallon tank, probably not a problem. Sand has tremendous surface area and generally can handle remarkable bioloads, so diminished efficiency wouldn't be a problem unless you were down to like under 20 - 30 % I would estimate conservatively.
I'd not bother with biomedia in the eheims. Myself, I'd just set one of 'em up to polish the water real purdy. If you want, leave 1/2 the media in each time you change it. The 2217's 264 gallons per hour ought to be just fine. Set it to send water towards the surface so it roils and oxygenates well. Remember agitating the surface blows off CO2 which you don't want to do with a planted tank. No splashing of course. I think both 2217s would be excessive but if you must, put one on each end or something. I just don't like lot's of currents waving my plants around a bunch. I like ponds. You may like different things so it's your call. Save the other 2217 for another tank, I say.
Browse this thread. If you like what I've got to say, just do an advanced search and look for deedeek's posts. HOWEVER, and I mean this to be a strong HOWEVER, there is much good info and debate from EVERYONE, though it be a long thread, it's worth reading.
As you consider setting up your aquarium, check out the thread on lighting. I've tried to stir the pot and get some info and discussion flowing around the subject. I think it's worthwhile but maybe it's just fussing too much. Still, check it out.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222711
