Lost 2 clown plecos within 2 days of purchase. Wth?
- Thread starter Shaners30
- Start date
Firstly, you reported nitrate in PPT, that is parts per thousand. Normally it is measured in PPM, parts per million. If you did not make a mistake when you said ppt, then you do have way too much nitrate.
Next, I never acclimated new fish. I have received a box with $10,000 worth of fish and they were plopped and dropped as are all my new fish. The longer a fish is in a bag, the worse it is for the fish.
However, I doubt that was the cause of your issue. Did you notice when you bought the fish if they had nice "full" bellies or were they sunken? When a specific species only dies as you have described my first instinct is it is coming in with issues rather than it being something in one's tank.
When you say params are good and post a strip pic to show them, most of us cannot see what you see. Can you provide the actual readings you see for: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and GH.
Also what dechlor do you use, how do you dose it and what sort of filtration do you have? Do you have an airstone? Plecos mostly iive on the bottom and generally both the temp. and oxygen levels can be lowest in that part of a tank. Aside from dechlor what, if anything, do you add to the tank water. Salt counts here as does anything else that doesn't come in with the water from your faucets.
Finally, you should be doing weekly water changes of about 50%. No fish has ever died because it's water was too clean. (This does not mean it is pure but that it isn't the wrong hardness or doesn't that it has to much or too little of what is needed for fish health.)
Next, I never acclimated new fish. I have received a box with $10,000 worth of fish and they were plopped and dropped as are all my new fish. The longer a fish is in a bag, the worse it is for the fish.
However, I doubt that was the cause of your issue. Did you notice when you bought the fish if they had nice "full" bellies or were they sunken? When a specific species only dies as you have described my first instinct is it is coming in with issues rather than it being something in one's tank.
When you say params are good and post a strip pic to show them, most of us cannot see what you see. Can you provide the actual readings you see for: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and GH.
Also what dechlor do you use, how do you dose it and what sort of filtration do you have? Do you have an airstone? Plecos mostly iive on the bottom and generally both the temp. and oxygen levels can be lowest in that part of a tank. Aside from dechlor what, if anything, do you add to the tank water. Salt counts here as does anything else that doesn't come in with the water from your faucets.
Finally, you should be doing weekly water changes of about 50%. No fish has ever died because it's water was too clean. (This does not mean it is pure but that it isn't the wrong hardness or doesn't that it has to much or too little of what is needed for fish health.)
Thank you for insight -
Yes - typo - meant PPM.
Did not notice or pay much attention to the bellys - was more looking at color and fin condition - ill be more mindful of the belly next go around.
NO3 - 20-30
NO2 - 0-0.5
PH - 7.0-7.5
KH - 80
GH - 120
Temp 77.5
Dechlor - Tetra brand - Aqua safe plus - 5 ml add every water change - normally 10 gal each change
I add in Tetra easy balance plus same time along with API stress coat - per paramters on bottle - for 10 gal.
Canister filter pulling from the bottom - 2 air stones active - salt count was roughly 1.004 on my hydrometer.
Any nitrite is harmful to fish (see brown blood disease). You should not have any in a cycled tank
You should have lower nitrate too but it doesn't usually kill fish. I think your plecos were likely not healthy as 2tank said.
I would stop using stress coat. Easy balance is "supposed" to reduce the need for water changes & also, like Stress Coat, it "helps slime coat". So if you use both it's like a double dose of something your fish don't need anyway. I use Prime dechlorinator because my water co. uses chloramines not just chlorine.
It's much better to be in the habit of weekly water changes. This will eventually get your nitrate down, under 20ppm is ok, less is better.
Where is the salt coming from? Is it in your tap water? I've never measured for salt so I don't know if that's lots or just a trace. I only use it as a temporary treatment & not often (adding over a couple days & removing slowly by water changes).
The surface area & "footprint" of your tank is too small for yoyo loaches. They may be small now but grow to 6 inches & need a 4ft tank. Hex tanks are usually tall & while 35g seems like a lot of water it's probably closer to a 20g standard tank for surface area. That will limit the amount of fish you can keep. It also has a small width so largish fish don't have enough swimming room. The skirt tetras can grow to 3 inches as can mollies so they're pushing it. Both tetra species are schooling fish, 6 is considered a minimum. We always need to stock tanks based on the adult size of the fish.
While I love clown plecos they are nocturnal & you may rarely see it. Just something to think about before deciding to try 1 (just 1) again. Wait until your lfs gets new stock & look carefully. You can try asking if they had losses too. They may not say...
You should have lower nitrate too but it doesn't usually kill fish. I think your plecos were likely not healthy as 2tank said.
I would stop using stress coat. Easy balance is "supposed" to reduce the need for water changes & also, like Stress Coat, it "helps slime coat". So if you use both it's like a double dose of something your fish don't need anyway. I use Prime dechlorinator because my water co. uses chloramines not just chlorine.
It's much better to be in the habit of weekly water changes. This will eventually get your nitrate down, under 20ppm is ok, less is better.
Where is the salt coming from? Is it in your tap water? I've never measured for salt so I don't know if that's lots or just a trace. I only use it as a temporary treatment & not often (adding over a couple days & removing slowly by water changes).
The surface area & "footprint" of your tank is too small for yoyo loaches. They may be small now but grow to 6 inches & need a 4ft tank. Hex tanks are usually tall & while 35g seems like a lot of water it's probably closer to a 20g standard tank for surface area. That will limit the amount of fish you can keep. It also has a small width so largish fish don't have enough swimming room. The skirt tetras can grow to 3 inches as can mollies so they're pushing it. Both tetra species are schooling fish, 6 is considered a minimum. We always need to stock tanks based on the adult size of the fish.
While I love clown plecos they are nocturnal & you may rarely see it. Just something to think about before deciding to try 1 (just 1) again. Wait until your lfs gets new stock & look carefully. You can try asking if they had losses too. They may not say...
Much appreciated - my numbers were going off the tiny test strips so ill see what it comes about with the liquid tests soon. The N02 is close to if not matchin the 0 level im certain but again those colors are so faint its not impossible to mistake white for almost white.
- ill bring it to stores attention about these and see what they say when I bring the deseased one back - it must be the case there as no one else has passed on my watch but these 2 which is unfortunate. Cool looking fish.
I am surprised to hear the yoyos get to be 6" - everywhere I read before I picked them up said they would only be about 2 to 2.5" long.
Nothing in my tank was read to max out bigger than 3" hence why I chose what I chose - and stocked trying to keep the 1" per gal limit - im over if we factor in full grown size but I took into account not all these fish will potentially make it / or I upsize my tank next few years as these ones grow.
I have over 6 tetras so am I wrong to have assumed the glows and skirts dont count as the same for schooling?
- ill bring it to stores attention about these and see what they say when I bring the deseased one back - it must be the case there as no one else has passed on my watch but these 2 which is unfortunate. Cool looking fish.
I am surprised to hear the yoyos get to be 6" - everywhere I read before I picked them up said they would only be about 2 to 2.5" long.
Nothing in my tank was read to max out bigger than 3" hence why I chose what I chose - and stocked trying to keep the 1" per gal limit - im over if we factor in full grown size but I took into account not all these fish will potentially make it / or I upsize my tank next few years as these ones grow.
I have over 6 tetras so am I wrong to have assumed the glows and skirts dont count as the same for schooling?
Yoyos "should" grow to at least 3 inches in their first year. They slow down a bit at 4". But they aren't done growing, if well kept they can live 10+ years. They can also be a little on the aggressive side...especially in a small footprint tank...They are NOT a good choice for you.
I thought you had said neon tetras & skirts, 2 different species. But "glow" "skirts" are the same as "regular" skirts including long fins & albino. But again, that's a lot of 3 inch fish with the mollies & other fish. Maybe I misread...
Unlike others here on AC I don't hate test strips so much. They're not bad for a quick idea in a "range" but a liquid test kit is more accurate. If the strip shows any color for nitrite I'd think there is some. 5 in 1 strips don't have ammonia test, 6 in 1 do. But just get an API Master Test freshwater kit...be aware they will expire. There's a date code on each bottle but I don't remember what it is right now. You can do a search here or on google. Be sure to shake the heck out of the bottles & test tubes , 60 seconds can seem like a long time (think microwaving) but you want accurate results. Watch a clock & think of it as exercise, lol.
I see color differently than my husband does (of course he thinks he's right, lol). Do you have a household member or friend to judge test colors? It happens with API tests too not just strips, I think you have 5 minutes with both. & if you use strips be sure to keep them dry & closed tight. It's easy to get sloppy with some fish stuff, foods & tests are not 2 you want to mess up with.
I thought you had said neon tetras & skirts, 2 different species. But "glow" "skirts" are the same as "regular" skirts including long fins & albino. But again, that's a lot of 3 inch fish with the mollies & other fish. Maybe I misread...
Unlike others here on AC I don't hate test strips so much. They're not bad for a quick idea in a "range" but a liquid test kit is more accurate. If the strip shows any color for nitrite I'd think there is some. 5 in 1 strips don't have ammonia test, 6 in 1 do. But just get an API Master Test freshwater kit...be aware they will expire. There's a date code on each bottle but I don't remember what it is right now. You can do a search here or on google. Be sure to shake the heck out of the bottles & test tubes , 60 seconds can seem like a long time (think microwaving) but you want accurate results. Watch a clock & think of it as exercise, lol.
I see color differently than my husband does (of course he thinks he's right, lol). Do you have a household member or friend to judge test colors? It happens with API tests too not just strips, I think you have 5 minutes with both. & if you use strips be sure to keep them dry & closed tight. It's easy to get sloppy with some fish stuff, foods & tests are not 2 you want to mess up with.
I pretty much concur with what fishorama said. I am even more against the stress coat and easy balance than she was.
Your parameters look OK for clown plecos. They look less good for the mollies (females can be 5+ inches) which would prefer harder water than you have. Yours is on the soft side which is fine for the tetras and plecos had they lived. A better option for the yoyo loaches (which grow to 6 inches and should be in groups) would be Ambastaia sidthimunki aka dwarf chain loach they are active all over a tank. I keep these and some of them have been with me for 18+ years. https://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki
There are two ways that fish are measured. TL= total length and means from tip of the "nose" to the end of the tail. SL= standard length which measures from the tip of the "nose" to the end of the body and does not included the tail. The scientist prefer SL and we hobbyists tend to prefer TL.
Based on your answers I still lean towards the plecos not being all that healthy to start and I think the combination of a longish acclimation and the idea that your water was not in the best of shape due to water changes being less than idea.
I am a bit nuts when it comes to researching the science behind this hobby. I read a lot of scientific papers. When studies of fish we are done in a lab, the fish are usually acclimated first. The time involved is 2 to 4 weeks. Experiments dealing with the ability of fish adapting to different parameters tend to show some of the physiological changes do not occur for a week or even two after the fish has been put into the new water. The upshot of this is if a fish truly needs to adapt to new parameters, this wont happen in a matter of minute or hours or even a few days.
Finally. most fish and pet stores use a common water system between groups of or even all the tanks in a shop. they will share nets and specimen boxes between the tanks as well. So when a disease or parasite hits, it can affect the fish in multiple tanks. This is why it is so important to use quarantine tanks for new fish. But, this also likely means the problem with the clown plecos was specific to them and not to the tank or group of tanks.
It is important when buying fish from shops that you check everything out. Walk around the place and look into tanks. Se how things look. Are there dead fish? Are there fish swimming weirdly? Do the fish have decent colors and do they appear to be well fed? If you can do so, do not buy on your first visit. Talk with the people who work there and ask a few Qs. See if they appear to know what they are talking about and are willing to help a new fish keeper. If you are not sure about what you are told, you can post it here and ask for opinions.
Come back to the store in a week or 10 days and look again. Does the place look OK? Are there a lot of the same fish still there? Do they look better or worse than on your first visit?
You have alot of options when it comes to buying fish because of their availability online. Finding sources which have healthy stock is a must. Price matters, but buying quality healthy fish even if more expensive up front will be cheaper in the long run. (I always say that one live healthy fish shipped to me is worth at least 3 DOAs.) Finding a local fish club is also a great help. The combined knowledge and the number of members breeding some of their fish and selling them at meetings can be a great source fish and plants often for bargain prices.
Your parameters look OK for clown plecos. They look less good for the mollies (females can be 5+ inches) which would prefer harder water than you have. Yours is on the soft side which is fine for the tetras and plecos had they lived. A better option for the yoyo loaches (which grow to 6 inches and should be in groups) would be Ambastaia sidthimunki aka dwarf chain loach they are active all over a tank. I keep these and some of them have been with me for 18+ years. https://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki
There are two ways that fish are measured. TL= total length and means from tip of the "nose" to the end of the tail. SL= standard length which measures from the tip of the "nose" to the end of the body and does not included the tail. The scientist prefer SL and we hobbyists tend to prefer TL.
Based on your answers I still lean towards the plecos not being all that healthy to start and I think the combination of a longish acclimation and the idea that your water was not in the best of shape due to water changes being less than idea.
I am a bit nuts when it comes to researching the science behind this hobby. I read a lot of scientific papers. When studies of fish we are done in a lab, the fish are usually acclimated first. The time involved is 2 to 4 weeks. Experiments dealing with the ability of fish adapting to different parameters tend to show some of the physiological changes do not occur for a week or even two after the fish has been put into the new water. The upshot of this is if a fish truly needs to adapt to new parameters, this wont happen in a matter of minute or hours or even a few days.
Finally. most fish and pet stores use a common water system between groups of or even all the tanks in a shop. they will share nets and specimen boxes between the tanks as well. So when a disease or parasite hits, it can affect the fish in multiple tanks. This is why it is so important to use quarantine tanks for new fish. But, this also likely means the problem with the clown plecos was specific to them and not to the tank or group of tanks.
It is important when buying fish from shops that you check everything out. Walk around the place and look into tanks. Se how things look. Are there dead fish? Are there fish swimming weirdly? Do the fish have decent colors and do they appear to be well fed? If you can do so, do not buy on your first visit. Talk with the people who work there and ask a few Qs. See if they appear to know what they are talking about and are willing to help a new fish keeper. If you are not sure about what you are told, you can post it here and ask for opinions.
Come back to the store in a week or 10 days and look again. Does the place look OK? Are there a lot of the same fish still there? Do they look better or worse than on your first visit?
You have alot of options when it comes to buying fish because of their availability online. Finding sources which have healthy stock is a must. Price matters, but buying quality healthy fish even if more expensive up front will be cheaper in the long run. (I always say that one live healthy fish shipped to me is worth at least 3 DOAs.) Finding a local fish club is also a great help. The combined knowledge and the number of members breeding some of their fish and selling them at meetings can be a great source fish and plants often for bargain prices.
Thank you for all the insight.
Take aways.
Water is OK. Good chance plecos were not geeat from the start. Need uptick on my WCs. Ease off the stress coat and only use ez balance. Not both.
Get a liquid kit for better accuracy. Tetra #s are good for schooling. Glow an skirts. (Sorry neon was wrong to use) my mollies may get too big. My yoyos will get bigger than what i read of 2.5"
And in near future may need tank with bigger footprint for my current stock.
Anything else i may have missed?
Ill be stopping at store today to express some concern on the plecos and see what they say. Ill try to get a credit instrad of risking another casualty.
Take aways.
Water is OK. Good chance plecos were not geeat from the start. Need uptick on my WCs. Ease off the stress coat and only use ez balance. Not both.
Get a liquid kit for better accuracy. Tetra #s are good for schooling. Glow an skirts. (Sorry neon was wrong to use) my mollies may get too big. My yoyos will get bigger than what i read of 2.5"
And in near future may need tank with bigger footprint for my current stock.
Anything else i may have missed?
Ill be stopping at store today to express some concern on the plecos and see what they say. Ill try to get a credit instrad of risking another casualty.
Both 2tank & I said you should also quit using Easy Balance. Fish don't need "help" with slime coating. I kinda think Stress Coat & easy balance can "gunk up" the gills. Aloe & other "irritants" are what causes that "extra slime coat". I don't freak out if a lfs adds Stress Coat to the fish bag but I also try to not let shop water in my tank. I would never use it as a regular additive.
I think you have quite a fish load even if you rehome the yoyos. I love sidthimunki (& most) loaches but not for you in this tank right now. Mollies & skirts, see how that works for now...We'd love to offer more (bossy
) help, lol...when you want it.
Other than that, I think you got the gist of what we've all said. We mean you well for the hex tank you have now. It's always fun to plan the next tank but that can be iffy. Don't get fish you can't house right now for a long while, stuff can play heck with our futures.
I think you have quite a fish load even if you rehome the yoyos. I love sidthimunki (& most) loaches but not for you in this tank right now. Mollies & skirts, see how that works for now...We'd love to offer more (bossy
) help, lol...when you want it.Other than that, I think you got the gist of what we've all said. We mean you well for the hex tank you have now. It's always fun to plan the next tank but that can be iffy. Don't get fish you can't house right now for a long while, stuff can play heck with our futures.
