My 55 gallon viquarium
- Thread starter reptileguy2727
- Start date
But when you look at this there really seems to be very little risk. The reasons are not supported and the one that is definitely true (toads bitinig newts) has to do with the setup and stocking density, not the simple fact that they are together. To avoid any possible risks I would need to keep all my fish separated by species. Even then in otherwise peaceful species you get the occasional agressive individual who terrorizes the others. I find it hard to understand why it is perfectly okay to mix so many species of fish even though we can come across countless examples of incompatibility or rather 'mixes gone wrong', yet it is so wrong to mix any herps and amphibs because of worst case occurances in the past under certain cicrumstances. I personally do not wish to risk any harm to any of my animals, but in my experience this is simply not one that warrants separation.
I think you will find here that fish and, herps and amphibians are totally different. Why are the fish and, herps being compared based on their temperament and defensive mechanisms respectively? The scenarios seem completely different to me.
My point is that it seems to be okay to take quite large risks with fish in hopes of it working out, yet even when proper care is provided it is frowned upon so harshly to mix herps or amphibs.
The main point is this:
IF anyone decides to try out a mix like this they MUST provide a carefully though out enclosure that meets the needs of all inhabitants, reduces the risk of injury, and maintain low populations. Even then it is best left to more advanced keepers who are able to recognize problems and potential problems.
The main point is this:
IF anyone decides to try out a mix like this they MUST provide a carefully though out enclosure that meets the needs of all inhabitants, reduces the risk of injury, and maintain low populations. Even then it is best left to more advanced keepers who are able to recognize problems and potential problems.
Thank you Lup! It's like comparing apples to oranges.
I'm sorry but for someone who claims to know these animals so well, you'd know then that mixing them is still the wrong thing to do. If you were to post this on some herp site, you'd totally get chewed out and you know it. Lucky for you this is a fish site and well.....most of the people here know fish, not reptiles and amphibians.
Sure, different animals can live together in dirty, cramped, confined spaces for years and "appear" fine but unless they learn to talk, you can't always know what's going on inside. Lets pretend for a minute that these animals all live in the same part of the world. Do they live at that density in the wild? No, they have space to escape each other and places to stake out territories. As mentioned before these animals look at each other as competition for food and space. Even if you think they're not stressed, they can be.
But pretending all aside, you and I both know that these animals do not come in contact with each other in the wild. Each species has grown up to become immune to one or more pathogens in it's native environment that might be quite deadly to the other. For instants the gut bacteria in some Old World tortoise species can make New World species sick if kept in the same enclosure. Amphibians are far more sensitive to pathogens, pollution, viruses, bacteria, etc then reptiles. So why would you want to put your animas at risk?
I know it looks "cool" when you can mix these animals together but we have to learn to rise above the "wow factor" and consider the animals well being. What happened to the other animals you had in your old setup? All of these species have the ability to live 10-15 years with very good care believe it or not. My old breeding colony of Bombina orientalis contained 5 individuals ranging 6 to 13 years old. Unfortunately I had to part with them when I went to college. But from what my cousin has told me they’re all doing great and still breeding for him.
Please take what I’ve said into some consideration. You seem like an intelligent enough individual who enjoys his hobby and pets. But why make a mistake if you already know it’s possible consequences? We’re all here to learn and share knowledge with each other and even the best of us make miscalculations. We just have to rise above it, except our mistakes and change our ways sometimes.
The two toads escaped from a five gallon bucket during a cleanup and were found later dried up on the floor in another part of the house. After that I took down the setup and gave away the newt.
I feel that these 'rules' are not set in stone. In every case I have put them together there have not been issues. When people on more advanced sites argue against this combination their main and best point is the toads biting the newts. This happens under overcrowded and improperly setup enclosures, not just any time they are together. It is 'wrong' because people decided, based on worst case examples of bad situations, that it was wrong. Then they shove it down others' throats whenever it is questioned. I find it hard to believe so strongly that it is wrong when it has not even been tried. I tried it. It has worked repeatedly and for extended periods. I personally find it no more risky to put together this combination than to put together newts, toads, etc. in their own setups. In those situations it is just as possible and risky that one will be injured.
Again, I have not found that they need to encounter each other in the wild for it to be 'okay' to do so in captivity. In addition, few cases of naturally overlapping ranges mean those species are compatible in captive setups.
I simply have found that none of the reasons provided to establish the combination as 'wrong' or risky actually hold up. The one that we know happens is injuries to newts which, again, is a factor of overcrowding and an improper setup, not them just being together. This is a 55 with only 4 of each. They have tons of room and the layout and setup allows them to avoid any negative interactions.
I feel that these 'rules' are not set in stone. In every case I have put them together there have not been issues. When people on more advanced sites argue against this combination their main and best point is the toads biting the newts. This happens under overcrowded and improperly setup enclosures, not just any time they are together. It is 'wrong' because people decided, based on worst case examples of bad situations, that it was wrong. Then they shove it down others' throats whenever it is questioned. I find it hard to believe so strongly that it is wrong when it has not even been tried. I tried it. It has worked repeatedly and for extended periods. I personally find it no more risky to put together this combination than to put together newts, toads, etc. in their own setups. In those situations it is just as possible and risky that one will be injured.
Again, I have not found that they need to encounter each other in the wild for it to be 'okay' to do so in captivity. In addition, few cases of naturally overlapping ranges mean those species are compatible in captive setups.
I simply have found that none of the reasons provided to establish the combination as 'wrong' or risky actually hold up. The one that we know happens is injuries to newts which, again, is a factor of overcrowding and an improper setup, not them just being together. This is a 55 with only 4 of each. They have tons of room and the layout and setup allows them to avoid any negative interactions.
i see no support for this "definitely true" claim...
my question to you, sir.. is this:
If "your experience" is all it takes to convince you that something is definitely true or not true, then how is anyone else's experience any less? (and provided with documentation, even)
As for the "toxins CAN leak out of them" portion.. if it is possible that it CAN'T leak, it's possible that it CAN. People don't just put advice up on the internet in the articles quoted because it's what they think is true. They put it up based on their own personal experience, which can often exceed, oh, say, even my 23 years of life in total.
The advice has been posted. I don't see any reason not to heed it, honestly.
Toads biting newts is definitely true. That is what I meant. There really is no arguing that and I am not questioning that one, just the conditions under which it takes place.
I am not saying my personal experience represents any type of 'higher truth' or anything like that. When people say CAN'T and NEVER and any one has or does, they are wrong.
That quote was part of a sentence stating that it is believed that they can. This far from means that it does. My counter to this is that if they do leak the toxins out constantly then why are my fish, snails, and amphibians so healthy without a single sign that anything is wrong? I have yet to see ANYTHING that shows that they do. I have not heard of any actual scientific test showing that any measurable level of either toxin is found in the water of a tank housing either species. I have not had anyone post a story about how their toad or newt died and when the vet did a necropsy he concluded that the likely cause of death was or even could be a toxin from the other species. The only thing that says it happens is people saying it happens, and none can provide a single bit of evidence to support this. I am not saying it is imposisble and if someone has anything that could demonstrate this PLEASE let me know, I would love to read it. But to assume it is true because articles and people keep saying it is without any support is incorrect in my opinion and my experience supports this.
I am not saying my personal experience represents any type of 'higher truth' or anything like that. When people say CAN'T and NEVER and any one has or does, they are wrong.
That quote was part of a sentence stating that it is believed that they can. This far from means that it does. My counter to this is that if they do leak the toxins out constantly then why are my fish, snails, and amphibians so healthy without a single sign that anything is wrong? I have yet to see ANYTHING that shows that they do. I have not heard of any actual scientific test showing that any measurable level of either toxin is found in the water of a tank housing either species. I have not had anyone post a story about how their toad or newt died and when the vet did a necropsy he concluded that the likely cause of death was or even could be a toxin from the other species. The only thing that says it happens is people saying it happens, and none can provide a single bit of evidence to support this. I am not saying it is imposisble and if someone has anything that could demonstrate this PLEASE let me know, I would love to read it. But to assume it is true because articles and people keep saying it is without any support is incorrect in my opinion and my experience supports this.
ok... this is past advice, and into semantics now. have a nice day. best of luck in your amphibious endeavors. 
