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senos

90 Gal Marine
Nov 18, 2005
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Toronto, Canada
but this makes no sense to me.. all of the marine tanks I see at the local fish stores have large sump filters with bio balls. what would do all of the bio filtration if i was to remove the bioballs? the rock I guess? i confused, should my bioball compartment then be converted to a refugium?
 

macphoto

AC Members
Aug 19, 2005
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As a newbie, I'm confused about the Bioball situation as well. Like Dave, from what I've seen in all the LFS's, Bioballs are practically synonymous with marine aquariums, supposedly providing the ultimate filtration. Yet everyone here shuns them. Obviously, I'm in no position to question the wisdom of all the experienced SW people here... just wondering why the discrepancy?

--Mike
 

Mahlhavoc

AC Members
Nov 1, 2005
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very simply put, Bio-Balls are nothing more than collectors of crud, you can't and don't clean them therefore you incorporate this crud back into your system.
 

senos

90 Gal Marine
Nov 18, 2005
52
0
0
Toronto, Canada
But then how come I see these beautiful reef tanks at the LFS that use large bioball compartments? My skimmer is actually set up to skim in the chamber before the water flows to the bioball compartment. hopefully that eliminates alot of the crud before it can build-up on the bioballs. Also isnt alot of that crud beneficial bacteria which breaks down your ammonias and nitrites? Isnt that the point of bioballs to begin with?

The one weird thing ive learned about this hobby is that you take advice from one group of people and you buy something and set it up, but then you always seem to hear conflicting advice from the next group of people about your setup, so you change something, and another group of people tell you a third way to do things. Mostly I notice this from jumping around to different fish stores and online help sites and forums. Personally, I just think everyone has their own preferred opinion and way to do things, but in the end everything probably works just fine. And maybe I will come to learn that bioballs are not too great for your system. But they cant be all that bad if they are on peoples systems for years and years (like at the LFS).
 

mogurnda

vaguely present
Apr 29, 2003
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If you have a decent prefilter, and clean it regularly, the bioballs won't collect debris. However, I have seen many threads where a person remedies a nitrate problem by getting rid of them. If you are using live rock, then the biofiltration from the bioballs is unecessary.

On tanks in shops, they are generally dealing with a much larger fish load than the home aquarist does. In those conditions, wet/dry filters or fluidized beds make sense. Also, if you are doing a FO system without live rock, you need something like a wet/dry system.

You're right that there are a ton of opinions on the boards and in the LFS. One thing that I have found invaluable is a local marine aquarium club. Being able to see other people's tanks in action, and talking at length about methods, really gives a better perspective.
 

macphoto

AC Members
Aug 19, 2005
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mogurnda said:
You're right that there are a ton of opinions on the boards and in the LFS.
The unenviable position that marine newbies like myself find ourselves in is that we have no true experience to base our decisions on. That's why places like this are such a great resource... I don't want to make mistakes that could have easily beed avoided by reading up on how more experienced aquariasts do things.

But then again, I have the LFS to get info from also... and if it's readily apparent that I am indeed a novice, he will undoubtedly share his own opinions of things like wet/dry filters with bioballs, which can get somewhat uncomfortable if these views confict with what I've read here. In other words, I'm not able to say, "well, in my experience, bioballs cause trouble and are uneeded with sufficient live rock." Instead, I can only say, "someone on the internet told me so, and it makes sense to me." Tack on an unspoken "so I'm not going to listen to YOUR advice," and it might cause a little friction with people with whom you'd prefer to have a good relationship.

However, that said, I have significant confidence in the advice I read here and intend to stick to it for the most part. I think that perhaps LFSs might fall into the "that's the way we've always done it" rut, and not keep up with new developments that indicate there are better ways of doing things.

Back to the actual topic. My initial reaction was to want to have bioballs (or some other type of biological filtration media)... after all, more is better, right? If I take those steps to prevent excessive nitrate build-up (plus, it won't be a reef tank, so nitrates wouldn't be AS critical), why not keep them? In my particular case, there is one very good reason why.

As I posted in a thread a few weeks ago, one of my concerns about starting a SW tank is the potential that a hurricane could knock out power as Katrina did a few months ago, which, with us having evacuated, resulted in my small FW tank (with just a couple of gouramis in it) being without filtration or circulation for several days until I was able to return home and hook it up to the generator. But I wouldn't want to put a fully-stocked SW tank through this.

Thinking of how I could best ensure the survival of my SW fish, I'd probably rig up some sort of pumps with a 12v high capacity battery like I use on our sailboat. While I could certainly rig a pump as a temporary sump return, this would complicate things somewhat, and likely draw more power (meaning a shorter window of running time) than just having a pump or two in the tank itself to provide circulation for the LR to do its thing.

My concern with bioballs would be that, if I understand correctly, the nitrifying bacteria colonies grow to whatever level of need exists in the tank. So, if the wet/dry is handling a significant portion of the biofiltration, and it is suddenly removed, I would probably see an ammonia spike as a result of the live rock alone not being able to handle the full load right away. For that reason alone, I think letting LR handle all the biofiltration is the best way for my situation.

--Mike
 

Mahlhavoc

AC Members
Nov 1, 2005
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But then again, I have the LFS to get info from also... and if it's readily apparent that I am indeed a novice, he will undoubtedly share his own opinions of things like wet/dry filters with bioballs, which can get somewhat uncomfortable if these views confict with what I've read here.
Just keep in mind, we don't ask you to spend your money here!
 

senos

90 Gal Marine
Nov 18, 2005
52
0
0
Toronto, Canada
ya some great points have been mentioned. Now I am wondering if my bioball compartment is maybe useless. Its not that big to begin with. I have about 35 lbs of live rock, but as you guys can see my tank is 90 gallons... so I might need the bioballs for now, but once I get another 30 lbs of live rock, you think the bioballs can come out? If so, then i can place a nice refugium in the bioball compartment which might benefit me a little more. Opinions?

Also, how do I know that my powerheads are sufficient for circulation and filtration in my tank? Look at the pictures posted in this thread of my tank and please let me know. On the top right I have a Maxi-jet 900 and on the top left is a Maxi-jet 600. I also have the return pump aiming out towards the front glass (been thinking about using loc-line Y to split that into two outputs as Mogurnda mentioned). So is my tank circulation enough to ensure the live rock is doing enough filtration? I was always under the impression that the best biological filtration takes place in oxygen rich environments - hence my thinking that wet/dry bioball filters are the best.

-Dave
 
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