Play sand, CaribSea, or pool filter sand?

[Byron Amazonas]

Sorry, Byron, I have to disagree.
While white sand may seem unnatural to you, that's just your opinion.

Many hobbyists consider it quite natural-looking, and it certainly does NOT stress fish.
I've used white PFS in my discus tanks, and other tanks, for many years, and it's an excellent substrate for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it heightens and brightens many fish's coloration.

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/3RedSnakeSkins
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Anubias

I'm not going to argue, but no discus lives over a "white" substrate, and it is not natural. Dr. Stanley Weitzman wrote a couple of articles on this aspect, and gave the scientific facts. I am not going to argue with that level of knowledge. This does not mean you or anyone cannot use white or whatever, but it does make a difference and there is no argument. Everyone is free to accept whatever.

 

[wesleydnunder]

white sand bottom:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...2F%2Fnicosawesomeeco.wordpress.com%2F;600;450

Mark

 

[Byron Amazonas]

white sand bottom:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pic...2F%2Fnicosawesomeeco.wordpress.com%2F;600;450

Mark

Thanks for supporting my view. Those photos do not show "white" sand as the white pool filter sand, but natural sand as I have been saying. Colour and light distortion in photos is common, as here.

The sand I use is quite dark dry, but wet under the tank light is a very different shade; when I first used it I was amazed at the difference, I could not believe it was the same sand as I held in my hand when rinsing it.

I did an experiment, albeit accidentally, a couple of years back. I had my 70g tank set up with buff fine gravel, and I decided to change it when I moved the tanks into my new fish room. I put a darker black mix in the tank, and returned the same fish (wild caught characins and corys). I could not believe the change in the fish behaviour and colouration, solely due to the different substrate. This supports Dr. Weitzman's facts, though he certainly doesn't need support from me.

 

[discuspaul]

The flip side of the coin is that a majority of experienced discus hobbyists & breeders on the simplydiscus.com forum have used bb white-bottomed tanks for years (usually painted on the underside, either that or with a thin layer of white or off-white sand on the tank bottom),.... as have Asian discus fish farm breeders & exporters for over 40 years in Singapore, Malaysia & Thailand- I know this because I spent several years living in Singapore in the 70's and visited a number of commercial discus exporting operations while there.
The upside to that is that it's so much easier to spot & pick up all debris in order to maintain quality water conditions for the discus.
I'll pit that against Dr. Weitzman's experience & commentary any time.
But hey, everyone has their opinion and views.
P.S. - Byron, have you seen Rick Grange's (Canadian Aqua Farms in Maple Ridge, B.C.) tank bottoms ?

 

[MChambers]

I'd be very curious to see citations to the articles by Dr. Weitzman on this aspect of substrate.

 

[discuspaul]

I'd be very curious to see citations to the articles by Dr. Weitzman on this aspect of substrate.

So would I.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

I will track this down and post. I have a binder full of photocopied articles by Weitzman and his colleagues at the Smithsonian covering several species of the "Rosy" clade of Hyphessobrycon, (I think that is where I came across this) which is not indexed by me, so I will have to likely read through to find it. Have patience, please. B.

 

[wesleydnunder]

I think we have some hair-splitting going on just what constitutes "white" and "natural". The substrate in the pic linked and the ones from Bleher's Discus Vol. 1 look like white sand to me. The pool filter sand I used in my discus tank seemed the same shade as the sand in the pics. *shrug*

Over the decades I've kept fish and seen fish kept over a wide variety of colored substrates from clown puke to sugar sand. The only behavioral difference I noticed was when I kept discus over a completely bare bottom; a marked tendency to swim with their tails elevated and their eyes looking downward...I'm assuming because they could see their reflections in the bottom glass.


Forty-six years of fishkeeping leads me to answer the OP's question with "Use whatever sand you'd like, with the exception of coal slag (black blasting sand). Its sharp edges can damage barbels"

Mark

 

[MChambers]

I will track this down and post. I have a binder full of photocopied articles by Weitzman and his colleagues at the Smithsonian covering several species of the "Rosy" clade of Hyphessobrycon, (I think that is where I came across this) which is not indexed by me, so I will have to likely read through to find it. Have patience, please. B.

Thanks very much. A cite would be great, but so would a quotation with the relevant passage about behavior and substrate would be appreciated. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious.

I can see that substrate color might have an effect, but in my experience PFS isn't truly white, and doesn't seem all that different from what might be found in nature.