Something is wiping my tank! :(

[BettaFishMommy]

Bob, how is the cycle not complete? zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and 20 ppm nitrate. sounds cycled to me.

the red parasite found in the dead fish could have been callamanus worms. nasty lil buggers. i've had to treat a tank that had them and ended up losing my favourite angel to bloat afterwards.

step up the water changes. 25% once a week isn't enough IMO. 50% minimum is highly recommended by many members here. it's not just the nitrate we remove during water changes, but the TDS (total dissolved solids) and DOC (dissolved organic compounds). both of these factors can make a tank go downhill if not regulated and removed on a regular basis.

 

[Rbishop]

He just added fish 7 days ago...despite advice in the other thread, he is letting WCs be a function of ammonia..as high as 1 ppm..no way would I trust his readings especially if just after a water change..

 

[BettaFishMommy]

ah, time for me to go read the other thread then, i haven't yet.

 

[dtn23]

He just added fish 7 days ago...despite advice in the other thread, he is letting WCs be a function of ammonia..as high as 1 ppm..no way would I trust his readings especially if just after a water change..

The fish I added a week ago were a small school of neons who really shouldn't have too much affect on the readings of a 50g water column. At least I wouldn't think so. The test results I posted are from the day before my weekly water change so they were 6 days "old." I'm not really trying to argue just making sure my point is understood. Even if you'd like to blame the cycle, the fish are showing no signs of stress from any kind of spike. I would also like to know how the cycle isn't complete.

Btw, please don't take this rudely, I'm just questioning your statements so I can try to learn more.

 

[Entold]

I have to agree. I dont think the tank is completely cycled. What kind of test do you use? Strips? Liquid?

 

[rufioman]

I would say stress and bad stock. Per this thread you started on August 1,

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?265714-Cycling-Frustration

the tank at that time was only 3 weeks old and you have also been doing a fishy cycle. So in reality, you are just over 7 wks along. You also mention in that thread you were letting ammonia climb to 1 ppm before doing water changes. If you are letting ammonia get that high you are stressing the fish and not helping yourself. A 25% water change weekly or waiting to ammonia gets that high is not good for a fish in cycle....

He always does his homework this bishop dude bummer your tank never cycled fully, but hopefully it gets better.

 

[rastoma]

step up the water changes. 25% once a week isn't enough IMO. 50% minimum is highly recommended by many members here.

If by many members you actually mean the minority, then maybe.

50% weekly water changes, especially on a 50g tank (unless it's SEVERELY overstocked), is a huge waste of water and is not recommended by practically anyone.

In fact, the veterans typically tell people that doing that much of a water change can be detrimental to the fish by disturbing/removing too much of the beneficial bacteria in the water.

Even 25% a week on 50g is a bit overkill with the stock the OP has. 15% a week or 25% every two weeks would be more reasonable.

 

[rastoma]

Even if you'd like to blame the cycle, the fish are showing no signs of stress from any kind of spike.

Signs of stress are not always so easily determined. Of course I can't know if they were under stress or not and from what you described, it seems like they were not. But not all fish will gasp for air at the top of the water or show other bizarre behavior. It goes back to the source and how they were bred.... all of which are not in the best conditions so a weakened immune system needs very little to push them over the edge and the fish doesn't have time to really be in distress.

And the ammonia doesn't really need to 'spike' to kill a fish that's already unhealthy. As I mentioned in another reply, I've lost many fish from PS, especially guppies. And the majority that died, died more than a week after being home. But I don't think I've lost a single offspring that's in the same tank for a couple of months now (except of course some fry getting eaten).

I would also like to know how the cycle isn't complete.

It may be cycled. But it seems like everything else has been ruled out or accounted for so I believe that's why those with more experience than I are thinking it could not be fully cycled yet. Doing 25% water changes weekly could be preventing it from cycleing completely.

I know it's frustrating. I've been in the same situation and just can't figure out why something died. I had 7 roseline sharks from PetSmart that were in a tank for two months, by themselves, no other inhabitants, seemingly happy... eating well, colors real good. Then one morning we found one dead. Next day another. Next morning after that another then that same day in the evening another. One or two a day until all 7 were gone just like that. Water parameters were excellent. I just couldn't figure it out. It made absolutely no sense. So without changing the water or doing anything to the tank, I put in some other fish (not roseline's, don't remember exactly what now). After 2 months they were happy as could be. I had to move them out to another tank so I could put in some marbled crayfish. The crayfish are still good and one is berried up.

Anyway, just trying to explain that sometimes, it's unexplainable

You mentioned your GF using glass cleaner on the tank (just carefully spray it onto the paper towel instead of on the glass and it will be fine). Does she use any kind of room deodorizer? On the carpet? Burn scented candles in the same room?

 

[BettaFishMommy]

If by many members you actually mean the minority, then maybe.

50% weekly water changes, especially on a 50g tank (unless it's SEVERELY overstocked), is a huge waste of water and is not recommended by practically anyone.

In fact, the veterans typically tell people that doing that much of a water change can be detrimental to the fish by disturbing/removing too much of the beneficial bacteria in the water.

Even 25% a week on 50g is a bit overkill with the stock the OP has. 15% a week or 25% every two weeks would be more reasonable.

firstly, the bacteria DO NOT live in the water. they live on surfaces in the tank and in the filter. changing water WILL NOT disturb your bacteria.

water is cheap, and the health of my fish comes before the cost of water.

by veterans, do you mean the old timers that never understood nor cared to understand the nitrogen cycle, DOC (dissolved organic compounds), TDS (total dissolved solids), and nitrate buildup? are these the same veterans that insist that topping a tank off once a month or so is enough to keep the fish healthy?

i have yet to come across a good standing member here on AC that knows their stuff, recommending anything less than a 50% weekly water change on an appropriately stocked and filtered tank.

how about you come to my house and see just how poorly my fish are doing with 50 to 75% weekly water changes. tell me if they are sick or what i am doing is 'detrimental' to their health. seriously. my oscar didn't stay alive and perfectly healthy because i did 25% water changes on his tank every two weeks all his life.

water changes are never overkill. especially in a tank where there has recently been deaths/disease.

get your facts straight before posting.

 

[dtn23]

You mentioned your GF using glass cleaner on the tank (just carefully spray it onto the paper towel instead of on the glass and it will be fine). Does she use any kind of room deodorizer? On the carpet? Burn scented candles in the same room?

Good to know about Windex but I'll probably just stick to a damp cloth in the future just to be safe. And actually, yes, my girlfriend uses both. She has some kind of carpet cleaning powder she uses when she vacuums and quite frequently has a candle or two lit. Are either or both of these detrimental to the tank? I hope not because she won't take easily to the loss of her pretty smelling things :rofl: