ugh...ich
- Thread starter boojumsnark25
- Start date
I'm now just waiting for the Libra Professor of Aquaculture and Director of the Aquaculture Institute at the University of Maine (who specialises in fish disease/parasites/cures) to send me the information you so desire. The experiments he carried out were on clownfish and it was found that the use of garlic caused heart and liver problems and also anemia.
eh....post the report if you want ace, but if everyone but you and a professor promote the use of garlic, garlic it is....
I think you will find that it has become quite common knowledge within the UK reefing community that garlic is not good for marine fish. The vast majority have found out that the companies advocating garlic in their feeds have done so due to an increase in demand from people hearing 'it's good for fish, I want that in my fish food'!
Garlic is fine for FW fish as there digestive systems are used to terestrial plant lipids, there are no terestrial plants on reefs.
I suppose you think it's ok to feed a dog chocolate because 'he likes it when I feed it to him' despite the fact that chocolate is toxic to dogs.
There is no scentific evidence that garlic is an immunstimulant fish, there is however evidence that it is harmful.
Unfortunately this evidence cannot be seen without disecting your fish very much in the same way that people who have cancer/aids etc may look fine on the outside but inside......not so good.
Here is the information I have received from Prof. Ian Bricknell Ph.D (Lancaster 1990 ), BSc (Zoology with Geology, 1st Class Hons, Reading 1986). Who also happens to know both Andy Reed and Anthony Calfo
A little history on him:
Ian Bricknell joined SMS (School of marine scienes, The Universtiy of Maine) from his position as Group Leader, Immunological Diagnostics in the Fisheries Research Service Laboratory, Aberdeen, Scotland. He works on the developmental immunity of larval fishes and with host-pathogen interactions. His interests include: the interaction of parasites with their host and the mechanisms they employ to avoid the host's defence mechanisms; immunological detection of fish diseases; the development of the immune system of larval fishes and the onset of immunocompetence; and, the mechanisms that larval fish use to contain or resist infection.
He has given permission for me to cite his trials, the following is quoted from him:
My laboratory has recently carried out a trial using purified allacin (the organic compound found in garlic) in clown fish
I recently picked up a MAEFS grant to look at this and the preliminary results are as follows The experiment was as follows
90 clown fish 40 on allicin, 40 not, 10 time zero samples. 10 sampled per week per group. The dose of allacin is 400ug/kg bw (a level used in humans and about 400ng/fish)
week 0 mean both groups 41.7% Hcrt
week 1 test 34.7% Hcrt control 42.4% Hcrt
week 2 test 18.8% Hcrt Controls 41.% Hcrt
week 3 test 17.2% Hcrt Controls 42.8% Hcrt
week 4 test 17.0% Hcrt Controls 40.6% Hcrt
Hcrt= haematocrit (how many red cells there are in the blood). The histology results on the organs hasn't been processed yet
Clearly allacin causes acute Heinz body anemia in reef fish too
and
my experimental design was
tank 1 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml garlic extract
tank 2 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml ginger extract
tank 3 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml squid oil
tank 4 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml RO water
all tanks Fed 3 times per day all fish were full siblings all tank were run simultaneously
Growth was assessed as the increase in weight for the populations over 4 weeks compared to the control tank (tank 4)
Tank 1 -2%
Tank 2 -3%
Tank 3 +18%
Tank 4 control fish 0%
so in this quick and dirty trial there was no benefit from the garlic or ginger in terms of growth. Indeed there was a small decline in weight in these groups which is probably due to the fish finding the feed unpalatable due to the garlic and ginger in the feed, at least initially. the squid oil grew best, but that may not be due to increased appetite but simply because the squid oil added more calories to the diet than the garlic or ginger.
So that is all the data I have on garlic and ginger as appetite enhancers in this trial they were no different from controls (if fact slightly worst) therefor they did not act as appetite enhancers.
On post mortem fish in group 1 had 62% liver damage and fish in group 2 had 68% liver damage. Groups 3-4 had normal livers.
End quote.
Make of it what you will but I have never and never will feed my marine fish garlic. To support there immune system I feed a varied diet of flake/frozen/pellet/granular foods. I am about to start the New Era feeding regime.
http://www.new-era-aquaculture.com/home.html
A little history on him:
Ian Bricknell joined SMS (School of marine scienes, The Universtiy of Maine) from his position as Group Leader, Immunological Diagnostics in the Fisheries Research Service Laboratory, Aberdeen, Scotland. He works on the developmental immunity of larval fishes and with host-pathogen interactions. His interests include: the interaction of parasites with their host and the mechanisms they employ to avoid the host's defence mechanisms; immunological detection of fish diseases; the development of the immune system of larval fishes and the onset of immunocompetence; and, the mechanisms that larval fish use to contain or resist infection.
He has given permission for me to cite his trials, the following is quoted from him:
My laboratory has recently carried out a trial using purified allacin (the organic compound found in garlic) in clown fish
I recently picked up a MAEFS grant to look at this and the preliminary results are as follows The experiment was as follows
90 clown fish 40 on allicin, 40 not, 10 time zero samples. 10 sampled per week per group. The dose of allacin is 400ug/kg bw (a level used in humans and about 400ng/fish)
week 0 mean both groups 41.7% Hcrt
week 1 test 34.7% Hcrt control 42.4% Hcrt
week 2 test 18.8% Hcrt Controls 41.% Hcrt
week 3 test 17.2% Hcrt Controls 42.8% Hcrt
week 4 test 17.0% Hcrt Controls 40.6% Hcrt
Hcrt= haematocrit (how many red cells there are in the blood). The histology results on the organs hasn't been processed yet
Clearly allacin causes acute Heinz body anemia in reef fish too
and
my experimental design was
tank 1 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml garlic extract
tank 2 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml ginger extract
tank 3 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml squid oil
tank 4 50 tank bred clowns @ fed 2g Of a commercial UK made flake food + 0.5 ml RO water
all tanks Fed 3 times per day all fish were full siblings all tank were run simultaneously
Growth was assessed as the increase in weight for the populations over 4 weeks compared to the control tank (tank 4)
Tank 1 -2%
Tank 2 -3%
Tank 3 +18%
Tank 4 control fish 0%
so in this quick and dirty trial there was no benefit from the garlic or ginger in terms of growth. Indeed there was a small decline in weight in these groups which is probably due to the fish finding the feed unpalatable due to the garlic and ginger in the feed, at least initially. the squid oil grew best, but that may not be due to increased appetite but simply because the squid oil added more calories to the diet than the garlic or ginger.
So that is all the data I have on garlic and ginger as appetite enhancers in this trial they were no different from controls (if fact slightly worst) therefor they did not act as appetite enhancers.
On post mortem fish in group 1 had 62% liver damage and fish in group 2 had 68% liver damage. Groups 3-4 had normal livers.
End quote.
Make of it what you will but I have never and never will feed my marine fish garlic. To support there immune system I feed a varied diet of flake/frozen/pellet/granular foods. I am about to start the New Era feeding regime.
http://www.new-era-aquaculture.com/home.html
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Thanks for posting that.
I however think that while feeding chocolate to a dog is not a good Idea, on a regular basis, if it gets them to swallow medicine or get an appetite going, it does have value.
If the garlic stimulates an appetite in a fish that is a bit picky, seems like a good course to take short term.
I personally have not seen any of my fish prefer garlic laced food. I read somewhere that garlic in the water helped, in that it made the fish harder to find for the parasite. Again, only short term, no regular dosing.
I however think that while feeding chocolate to a dog is not a good Idea, on a regular basis, if it gets them to swallow medicine or get an appetite going, it does have value.
If the garlic stimulates an appetite in a fish that is a bit picky, seems like a good course to take short term.
I personally have not seen any of my fish prefer garlic laced food. I read somewhere that garlic in the water helped, in that it made the fish harder to find for the parasite. Again, only short term, no regular dosing.
