Mafia #18 The Santa Game

[Hooked Newbie]

Charlie might be evil and the sacrifice to make her look good.

should read Though Charlie might be evil and the sacrifice to make her look good.

And you might be manipulating the the town against itself with your theories.

 

[IceH2O]

no, now don'[t tell me you are having amnesia.

Remember 2 maybe 3 games ago when we as a town came up with a couple of our best suspects and did what we needed then. This is how we as a town took the town back. You're shocking me as to making it sound like it's not such a good idea anymore.



Please, don't "assume" I am going to hang you to dry, Charlie. You have hung yourself, my dear.


posting and jumping off innocents?? Ice, I didn't jump off of anyone. I voted Niko 1st night, yes but I have been on Charlie for the entire 2nd day and voted that way. It is very interesting how you seem to be so different all of a sudden.

We came up with 2 or 3 suspects and split votes among them to see who went where. I don't believe at that time we were down to a possible last night fall.

Theres no room for error, we need to find the best suspect and lynch them.

As for jumping off innocents. I mentioned it earlier too. You were on Niko, as soon as the ball got rolling on him you jumped to Charlie. What about Niko was so suspicious day 1 but not Day 2?

What about Charlie raised your suspicion level so much?

 

[IceH2O]

And you might be manipulating the the town against itself with your theories.

It would be more evil of me not to put my thoughts out there.

I'm not asking anyone to follow my lead. I'm just asking for thoughts on people.

 

[Hooked Newbie]

You haven't done anything and thats the point.

You voted for yourself. After making a list of suspects. I understand not feeling strongly on anyone the 1st night but none of us can say we do. You have to take chances and voting yourself is just as safe a vote as voting for someone not in the running to be lynched. You also could have broken the tie. Whats you're thoughts on Clowns status of evil or not?

You haven't drawn out any evils or even built cases, you're just floating along making posts that make no sense really.

You weren't that high on my list just someone to watch but..

How can you say you don't see anything on Niko? I think the evidence is pretty damning. Are you trying to protect Niko?

You've actually made yourself more a suspect in my eyes and I thank you for your response.

After rereading the posts DD also has my attention. The post in which she quotes Mad but goes on a tangent against HN was very strange.

So if anyones keeping notes my suspects are in no order

Niko
Charlie
Coler
Beth
DD

Want to add why is it you throw Colers name out there?

Is it because they told you to for distancing tactics? Because they know Coler is a good player and can deflect suspicion?

Do I have most of the team correct with the Niko,Charlie and Coler aspect to you?

Above post was to Beth. This is curious to me. The "team" you name consisted of Rudolph, an Innocent, and an unknown (suspected evil). Did you include one evil in there or were these actually all innocents listed? And no... I am not in any way defending Charlie by any means, I just want you to answer some questions instead of always asking them. I'm beginning to think you've been playing the pied piper.

It would be more evil of me not to put my thoughts out there.

I'm not asking anyone to follow my lead. I'm just asking for thoughts on people.

Usually true, but if the "thoughts" are directed in order to ellicit the outcome you want it could easily be an evil ploy. You and Mad are both easily good enough to do this and right now I think you may be playing with us.

What do you think once and for all (they're gone, so your opinion on them shouldn't change much) about JM & CL? I am really curious because I think we gained a big hint when JM was forced to bow out and you blew by it.

 

[Madcrawdad]

HN, in the post below you name Chas and Grins as partners in crime... you make the point that Grins and Niko appear to be on opposite sides.

Ok, I'm back. Hungover big time, but caught up. My primary suspects are still Charlie & Coler, but the cases against Niko look stronger with everything collated. Grins is making me wonder, not because she named me but because she seems to be "favoring" Charlie. She quoted both apologies, but did not question Charlie's sincerity in the least while she did call doubt to Niko's. She also conveniently quoted a fairly old post of Charlie's (about me) which was actually out of order from the other posts she quoted. Surprise! Charlie followed suit and named me again. Say hi to Grins for me in your chat room Charlie. By all means people, look at me. Question me. Whatever. Also look at those pushing cases and those following them. Like someone said (Ice, I think) it's alot easier to tell the truth and that's what I've done so I'm not worried about it. I think Charlie has something to hide.

Call it whatever you want Charlie...

I retract my vote to lynch Coler and vote to lynch Charlie.

In the post below, you post your list. Charlie/Coler are your strongest suspicions. But, Niko and Grins also appear.

If you're proven evil, absolutely. Not sure now, but I'm not giving her a free pass. She's said a few things that have been odd and her lob to you look's incriminating.



Charlie, Coler, strongest.
Niko, Grins, not sold yet but evilish.

Can you tell me why you hopped on Niko again? It didn't bother you at all that Grins had a vote parked on him?


--------------------------------------------------------------
In this response to Chas you talk about CL. It looks to me like your assuming that CL was guilty. You say you won't miss him, unless he was a townie... sounds to me like your assuming guilt, right?

You sooo funny. My "insistence he's guilty"? I do believe he is, but did you miss that I retracted my vote for him and placed it onto you? I'm more sure of your guilt. Unless CL was a townie, I won't miss him a bit, but do find these weak attempts to insinuate your own version of things quite comical.

Here you respond to a comment from Chas where he assumed that CL was scum... You seem to confirm Chas' assumption.

Of course, you know for sure one way or another so it's not really an "assumption".

Later, Chas again assumes that CL was evil...

well, at risk of being "linked" to Coler, the majority believes CL was evil methinks.

Now you're saying that you thought CL was innocent....

Maybe I'm in the minority. I agree that he was acting strangely, but based on the count from Rb and my suspicions about Judge, I think he was innocent.

Which is it?

 

[Madcrawdad]

:mad2::wall:

Crap! Tonight sucked! Maybe I've been reading things all wrong and the evil elves just haven't made many if any mistakes. Maybe it's Mad, Ice, Jpap, DD, Blue, Grins...

I do still think Charlie is guilty, but I thought Coler and Lady G were as well so I'm going to keep an open mind. At this point I can relate to LG last game and would almost invite a lych out of frustration.

Sorry I helped to kill you Niko.

I vote to lynch Jpappy. Not much of a case, but I think we've been led around by the noses and he's been just helpful enough to stay active without raising any suspicions.

There's a good case HN, it's people who haven't done anything evil who might be scum..... BTW, why is Grins on you list of those who haven't made any/many mistakes? I believe Grins was on your most recent suspect list, so she had to have made some mistakes, right? Why you voting JPap instead of Grins?

Nice apology to Niko....you didn't kill him, though. You hopped on after he was already dead.

Like I said, I didn't want to waste a vote and if he were evil and had team mates on him, they could've come off late to save him. Poor decision on my part, but the late vote onto Coler by him was, as I said, the most suspicious thing I'd seen from him.

I find one thing curious about your vote. Why were you so happy to leave it where it was? Ironically it was where Plant was voting. Was that so that you could appear to be in tune with her so you wouldn't be questioned when you put the hit in on her?

How would your vote have been 'wasted' had you stayed on Chas? Niko would still be dead, right? Regarding my vote, would me moving to Niko have been a better thing to do?

Isn't it interesting that my name didn't apear in your posts until I mentioned you. I'm starting to believe that there's a very strong Evil team and that it includes you and Mad. You seemed to initially say that Jpappy might be a good candidate, but voting him sure brought some out of the woodwork.

I might say the same about you....you say that I haven't made any mistakes, yet you tried to link me to both Andi and Plantling's hits. Strange, I haven't heard much from you until I asked about your vote on Niko....

 

[charlie_stubbs]

It didn't bother you that your arch-enemy #1 suspect Hooked Newbie hopped on Niko? You followed him without hesitation?

Yes Mad, it gave me reason to pause. I thought he might be a disconnected elf, and again I voted Niko because I thought he was evil, near the end.

 

[Hooked Newbie]

HN, in the post below you name Chas and Grins as partners in crime... you make the point that Grins and Niko appear to be on opposite sides.

You're stating a subtlety here which wasn't there, I did not "make a point that Grins and Niko appeared on opposite sides. I did believe that Grins & Charlie were "in tune", but all I did was make mention that she questioned Niko's apology and did not question Charlie's. With three people involved, there are a myriad of possibilities. Then again you know that and are presenting the one that fits your goal the best I believe.

In the post below, you post your list. Charlie/Coler are your strongest suspicions. But, Niko and Grins also appear.

Yep. Did you read the post? I had Niko and Grins as possibles.

Can you tell me why you hopped on Niko again? It didn't bother you at all that Grins had a vote parked on him?

I didn't want to waste a vote and didn't want his team to be able to sway it last minute. Until the late vote onto Coler, I truthfully wasn't overly concerned by him. Let me know if you need me to post it for a third time.

--------------------------------------------------------------
In this response to Chas you talk about CL. It looks to me like your assuming that CL was guilty. You say you won't miss him, unless he was a townie... sounds to me like your assuming guilt, right?

Sounds to you...

Here you respond to a comment from Chas where he assumed that CL was scum... You seem to confirm Chas' assumption.

I seem to confirm...

Later, Chas again assumes that CL was evil...


Now you're saying that you thought CL was innocent....

That was some of the material that had / has me convinced on Charlie. Your qualifying words absolve you of any responsibility right? I am starting to second guess myself though. I'm thinking that you and team may be leveraging the way I play against me and the town. Is that why I've not been hit? I've been serving the same purpose that Lady did last game right?

Which is it?

I believe CL was innocent and that JM was guilty with a role. I also believe that you and Ice may be successful with this tactic, unfortunately. I just hope that people can see how hard and deep you two are digging for something that isn't there now that you've finally been questioned. It may be even more telling that the attention came after Jpappy was voted for. We need to find the Grinch. We've lost Rudolph (Doc) and way too many innocents.

 

[IceH2O]

Post split to answer both parts.

Above post was to Beth. This is curious to me. The "team" you name consisted of Rudolph, an Innocent, and an unknown (suspected evil). Did you include one evil in there or were these actually all innocents listed? And no... I am not in any way defending Charlie by any means, I just want you to answer some questions instead of always asking them. I'm beginning to think you've been playing the pied piper.

Really HN you want to compare posts?

Need I remind you that you had votes on Rudolph on both days? I won't count Day 1s vote since it was early but you started day 2 on him then switched to Charlie while leaving suspicion on Coler. Then the last second switch to Niko.

Lets look at your lists HN:

I fear my initial gut feel was correct. Coler has seemed to be daring folks to vote for him (over-compensating, I think) and I am going to again indulge him. I vote to lynch Coler. Come on, attack me like you did CL.

Vot on Rudolph to start off Day 2

Ok, I'm back. Hungover big time, but caught up. My primary suspects are still Charlie & Coler, but the cases against Niko look stronger with everything collated. Grins is making me wonder, not because she named me but because she seems to be "favoring" Charlie. She quoted both apologies, but did not question Charlie's sincerity in the least while she did call doubt to Niko's. She also conveniently quoted a fairly old post of Charlie's (about me) which was actually out of order from the other posts she quoted. Surprise! Charlie followed suit and named me again. Say hi to Grins for me in your chat room Charlie. By all means people, look at me. Question me. Whatever. Also look at those pushing cases and those following them. Like someone said (Ice, I think) it's alot easier to tell the truth and that's what I've done so I'm not worried about it. I think Charlie has something to hide.

Call it whatever you want Charlie...

I retract my vote to lynch Coler and vote to lynch Charlie.

Heres a nice little list

So, my list so far....

Charlie, Judge, Blue, Lady G, & Ice.

Maybes on Coler and Niko.

Maybe on Coler? But at this point you've voted him, twice. Lady G a known innocent as is Coler and Niko. Judge a possible innocent. Blue and Charlie unknowns.

I would have quoted your prior post, bu it was sufficently nested to frustrate me. I am glad I got off early today.

INNOCENTS, please review post #341.

Lady, I explained what I said, but apparently you skimmed over it. You did manage to quote my response that was posted afterwards and in direct subject matter to it though. Your post only makes me rethink a couple of people since I believe the majority (probably large) of those you suspect and quoted are innocent. You've done nothing to ferret out information and merely restated some cases made by others. As for my timing on Jmax, look at my post. It was large and took some time. It was posted 14 minutes after Rb posted about her and I did not see the post until after I posted mine. But, yes I suspected her evil and combined with the fact that Rb had to adjust roles AND that she briefly used a grinh avatar in the Xmas avatar thread and changed it abruptly to the Ho-ho-ho thing right around game start, I believe she was the Grinch. I think you may have inherited that role and that may be what quieted you down. I think Charlie is on your side as well. You jumping on the nice, easy, newbie voting for herself (no matter how bad a move it is) only strengthens my conviction.

I retract my vote to lynch Charlie (Minion) and vote to lynch Lady G (Grinch?).

Using inheriting the role to lynch LG, even though it was never said any roles were switched.

Ok, nothing elaborate here just something to look back on if I get hit tonight...

Lady G, Charlie, DD, Ice, Jpappy, Blue, CL, Coler... would be my order of questioning / suspicion.

Gotta run for a bit, hope to be back for night.

Again LG Coler innocent, you thought LG was switched with JM but you have CL listed as a possible evil

I'm sorry that I was wrong about you Lady and I'll accept the inevitable blame. Hope RL improves for you.

Overall, tonight sucked! At least Kuhli was evil. King- you have a bad habit of going by way of the UD.

Wow, hit on Andi... I gotta think that makes Ice, Coler, Mad, or My suspects close or them guilty. (I included myself for fairness). I think they're probably fishing for Santa. I wonder what they saw about Andi to waste a shot... will review. Seems that Charlie is once again my best suspect, but I do look forward to hearing from CL since he was so close to the block. Time for thoughts folks, no more secret hunches... we have the numbers, but not by much.

More thoughts on CL being evil. Which is it? JM or CL?

I still suspect Charlie strongly. I am voting Coler to see what he has to say about the hit since he was so certain he'd get killed tonight.

Charlies the suspect by lets vote Rudolph?

HN-
You have now linked me to the following players:
JM
LG
Andi
Niko
Grins

Is there anyone I'm not linked to, aside from yourself that is.

So HN has linked Charlie to 3 for sure innocents a possible innocent and Grins an unknown but leaning innocent.

If you're proven evil, absolutely. Not sure now, but I'm not giving her a free pass. She's said a few things that have been odd and her lob to you look's incriminating.



Charlie, Coler, strongest.
Niko, Grins, not sold yet but evilish.

Again all over Rudolph.

Whoa! Good catch Blue. Did DD just pull a mee-mee?!

DD?

Now DD

:mad2::wall:

Crap! Tonight sucked! Maybe I've been reading things all wrong and the evil elves just haven't made many if any mistakes. Maybe it's Mad, Ice, Jpap, DD, Blue, Grins...

I do still think Charlie is guilty, but I thought Coler and Lady G were as well so I'm going to keep an open mind. At this point I can relate to LG last game and would almost invite a lych out of frustration.

Sorry I helped to kill you Niko.

I vote to lynch Jpappy. Not much of a case, but I think we've been led around by the noses and he's been just helpful enough to stay active without raising any suspicions.

Here he names a team of 7 players, votes Jpap who he admits he has no case on.

Wow.... that's your only question after all the events since your last post?

Then he questions Gupman.

So everyone but HN is pretty much evil.

Not really helping much HN.

Usually true, but if the "thoughts" are directed in order to ellicit the outcome you want it could easily be an evil ploy. You and Mad are both easily good enough to do this and right now I think you may be playing with us.

What do you think once and for all (they're gone, so your opinion on them shouldn't change much) about JM & CL? I am really curious because I think we gained a big hint when JM was forced to bow out and you blew by it.

You're actually a better bad guy then I am HN but thanks for trying to give me props.

As for JM or CL.

I have no idea, I'm guessing you'd know who your leader was unless you're one of the detached elves.

CL looked much scummier to me if I had to pick one over the other.

 

[johnlarson66]

The UD's are going to be the end of the mafia games. While I like the rule, I also know that life happens. I myself have died a UD and almost died a second one.

I posted a list that I think is not even close to anything at this point. Coler really seemed guilty, at no point did I get any type of vibe of him being a PW. Most everyone I have suspected so far have been innocent.

At this point I am most suspicious of charlie and beth. I am not going to do a bunch of quotes, but I think it can be seen where they have defended each other. I even think at least one of them has been called on it. I am fairly sure they are linked.

I am okay with voting for either one.

I vote to lynch bethkira2000