How many Oscars?

Those cases have proven it. HLLE developed, the carbon was removed and the HLLE went away, the carbon was returned and so did the HLLE. What else would prove it?

It does not mean that if you use carbon it will happen. It simply means that if you have HLLE then you need to consider this as a possible cause, especially if treating for other more likely causes has not cured it. The cases I am thinking of were oscars and saltwater fish. And since HITH and HLLE have not been 'proven' to be caused by A, B, C, or a combination you cannot say that this never causes it.

Carbon also effects planted and reef tanks. This is by no means a uniquely discus issue.
 
reptileguy2727 said:
Those cases have proven it. HLLE developed, the carbon was removed and the HLLE went away, the carbon was returned and so did the HLLE. What else would prove it?

It does not mean that if you use carbon it will happen. It simply means that if you have HLLE then you need to consider this as a possible cause, especially if treating for other more likely causes has not cured it. The cases I am thinking of were oscars and saltwater fish. And since HITH and HLLE have not been 'proven' to be caused by A, B, C, or a combination you cannot say that this never causes it.

Carbon also effects planted and reef tanks. This is by no means a uniquely discus issue.
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sorry, but that is hard for me to believe..i to know people who have had cases of HITH with carbon in the filters..but they never removed it, water changes and a quality diet removed it.

carbon affects saltwater tanks and planted tanks differently in a sense, in planted tanks it removes beneficial nutrients(ferts) and CO2, in reefs it removes beneficial nutrients and chemicals, the discussion with discus is that it can aid in giving the fish HITH.

also..i am not arguing with, just getting some points across..it almost seemed like you were dooming any fish in a tank with a filter that used carbon..

i'm not a fan of the whole carbon causes HITH debate..it ends right where it started. now im not saying that it does cause, or that is doesnt..all im saying is that i have never experienced it with my fish, friends fish, or LFS fish.

i'm going to leave it at that. no more of these posts from me.
 
Yes, most cases that I have seen were not carbon caused or contributed, but it has happened. Thankfully it is not the usual and is a rare cause for HLLE. But in some cases it is the cause. So if anyone sees a case where other things are not helping, or at least not curing completely, please remember to consider carbon as a possible cause.

I say don't use carbon because it can cause problems, is unnecessary, and a waste of money in my experience.

With HLLE usually water and diet are too blame and need to be fixed.

With HITH you may only need to use a medication that will kill the parasites. For me Metro+ did this wonderfully. It cured my discus immediately and with no scarring. That occurred almost immediately after I got them.

Carbon does the same in all these systems, it removes nutrients in the form of micronutrients and trace elements. It removes the substances vital for the species in question to properly function.
 
sploke said:
With earthworms or anything else caught from the wild, make sure its taken from someplace that you're sure doesn't get any pesticides or chemicals applied. Earthworms, crickets and such are a good treat, but I would tend to stick with a quality pellet food as the diet staple. I use Omega-1, others swear by New Life Spectrum as has already been mentioned. I also raise guppies and snails that my cichlids get upon occasion. A varied diet is key.
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I buy them from my LFS (earthworms). I use Hikari Gold as his staple and give him the worms like twice a week. Ill probably switch to that other one everyone is talking about once i run out of Hikari Gold.
 
reptileguy2727 said:
Have you considered a canister?

I personally do not like the Biowheels because the cartridges are over-priced, include carbon (has been shown to cause HLLE, yes CAUSE), are nto really re-usable, and not that good at mechanical filtration. The Biowheel itself is very good, it is the cartridges that are a problem. With high waste producers it is important to have very good mechanical media and as much biological as you can manage.

Diet is very important in all fish, but can have more noticable affects in oscars. It has been shown to be associated with HLLE and HITH. In the past variety was key to getting a complete and balanced diet, which was the actual goal, not variety itself. But now New Life Spectrum has truly changed that. A diet of NLS exclusively is truly complete and balanced. It is the best diet I have ever used. I highly suggest using it as part of the diet if not the entire diet. The only other pelleted food I would say is not a complete waste compared to NLS is Hikari Bio-Gold+ because it contains viable bacteria that can outcompete Hexamita spp. and Spironucleus vortens, the parasites shown to be associated with HITH. I personally avoid all live foods because they can increase aggression (not good if there is ever going to be another fish in the tank), are nutritionally incomplete (sometimes actually nutritionally harmful), and can introduce a lot of different pathogens.
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I actually dont have room for a cansiter filter. The tank is being put into a modifed and strengthen built in bookcase with no room underneath it.
 
They are definitely worth having on there. I would seriously look again and see if you can figure something out. Maybe sitting it on the floor beside the bookcase, or on the bookcase next to or behind the tank.
 
I woudlnt put it next to the tank on the carpet, that would be an eye sore. There could be some room behind the tank, but that would be a hassle. everyone Ive talked to so far besides you have said my emporer 280 and 400 would be enough filtration
 
ScottyNorq said:
I woudlnt put it next to the tank on the carpet, that would be an eye sore. There could be some room behind the tank, but that would be a hassle. everyone Ive talked to so far besides you have said my emporer 280 and 400 would be enough filtration
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MAYBE. depends on your bioload, and, frankly, i wouldnt keep an oscar without a canister filter.

just be prepared for more water changes, and more filter maintenance.
 
Do you have enough room behind it to run several Mag 250 HOTS...?
 
It will be enough for now, but trust me, oscar tanks do much better with a canister.
 
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