Add watonai to double-tailed, and for decorations you need to add that sharp points and rough rocks should not be used anywhere in the tank, especially for single-tailed because they are so active.
Goldfish Article
- Thread starter Lexi_D
- Start date
Dangerdoll
Global Moderator
ah, I hope you're not taking too much advice from them because they are off base.
Dropsy is triggered by poor water conditions/a subsequent reaction from some other underlying disease and/or tumor. It's doesn't come from eating flakes from the surface. That can cause swim bladder disease..... they both have rounder bellies, just one has a hard time balancing themselves out in order to swim and float naturally in the water.
It's not swim bladder disease so much as air trapped in the GI tract, though it is often referred to as SBD as shorthand. Either way, most goldfish people will know what you mean. This can come from low quality food with high grain filler content as well, so good quality food is very important for fancy goldfish. Also, there needs to be further segregation between various fancy groups. Stronger swimmers like oranda and ryukin will often overpower ranchu/lionheads in terms of feeding, as the dorsal-less varieties tend to be clumsier/slower eaters. Fancy goldfish should be broken down into dorsal-less varieties, which can for the most part be kept together, eye type varieties, which all require special living considerations, and the more vigorous varieties such like oranda and ryukin. There are also other varieties that need more specialized care, such as tosakin, who need little/no water flow to develop properly, and some colors like black, which are more likely to remain under specific water conditions. Also, please don't forget to mention that even fully grown adult goldfish can change color relatively quickly and without warning, so never choose a goldfish based on color/pattern alone.
Excellent point.
Yup! I agree.
I think Tosakin should really be in a category all their own - or a great place to put them would be with the bubble-eyes and celestials. Their needs are similar - no decorations in the tank other than possibly silk plants, little to no water flow.
I disagree here. Adult goldfish will not change color. A juvenile fish - anything two years or younger - has very unstable color patterns, but even after just one year the colors will start to stabilize, with full development coming at about two years. Beyond that the colors should not shift at all.
I fixed the part about feeding- how does this sound? I want to make this article not too confusing for beginner fishkeepers:
For single-tailed species, flakes will work, but sinking pellets are best. For fancies, only use pellets; while feeding at the surface, air is taken in and trapped inside the fish’s body, causing them to not be able to keep their balance in the water. This is called Swim Bladder Disease, and is usually fatal.
Swim Bladder Disease can also be caused by low quality food with a high amount of grain filler in it. Very good quality food from a company such as Hikari® is vital to keeping your fancy goldfish healthy.
I also fixed the part for decorations:
= Decorations- Absolutely no rough rocks or sharp points can be used in the tank, especially with ST species because they’re very active. Also, bubble eyes/other eye types should only have smooth rocks/silk plants because of their delicate parts.
I will need some help categorizing the fancies; I've got a few in their spots but some I'm not so sure about. Additionally, should I leave the titles for the categories as they are? Here's what I have so far (I will also post the chart later):
Vigorous Varieties
Oranda
Ryukin
Eye-type Varieties
Bubble Eye
Celestial
Black Moor
Dorsal-less Varieties
Ranchu
Lionhead
Eggfish
Demekin
---------------
Unsure about:
Fantail
Veiltail
PomPom
Pearlscale
Tosakin (should I give a single category for this fish?)
Plus- I found a website that told about a few different kinds that I've never heard about and I wanted to classify on this list:
* Tamasaba or sabao
* Meteor goldfish
* Curled-gill goldfish or reversed-gill goldfish
New varieties
* Azuma nishiki - a nacreous-colored oranda
* Muse - a cross between a tosakin and an azuma nishiki with black eyes and white translucent scales
* Aurora - a cross between a shubunkin and an azuma nishiki or between a calico jikin and a tosakin
* Willow - a long and willowy telescope-eyed comet or shubunkin
* Dragon eye ranchu or squid ranchu - a telescope eyed ranchu variety
* Singachu or sakura singachu - a ranchu variant
Revived varieties
* Osaka ranchu - a ranchu relative
* Izumo nankin - a ranchu-like variety
(Copied from website: allpetlist.com)
Should I add the part about colors in the attributes section? I couldn't think of what to put in there. Are the tank sizes I listed correct? (I wasn't totally sure about those)
For single-tailed species, flakes will work, but sinking pellets are best. For fancies, only use pellets; while feeding at the surface, air is taken in and trapped inside the fish’s body, causing them to not be able to keep their balance in the water. This is called Swim Bladder Disease, and is usually fatal.
Swim Bladder Disease can also be caused by low quality food with a high amount of grain filler in it. Very good quality food from a company such as Hikari® is vital to keeping your fancy goldfish healthy.
I also fixed the part for decorations:
= Decorations- Absolutely no rough rocks or sharp points can be used in the tank, especially with ST species because they’re very active. Also, bubble eyes/other eye types should only have smooth rocks/silk plants because of their delicate parts.
I will need some help categorizing the fancies; I've got a few in their spots but some I'm not so sure about. Additionally, should I leave the titles for the categories as they are? Here's what I have so far (I will also post the chart later):
Vigorous Varieties
Oranda
Ryukin
Eye-type Varieties
Bubble Eye
Celestial
Black Moor
Dorsal-less Varieties
Ranchu
Lionhead
Eggfish
Demekin
---------------
Unsure about:
Fantail
Veiltail
PomPom
Pearlscale
Tosakin (should I give a single category for this fish?)
Plus- I found a website that told about a few different kinds that I've never heard about and I wanted to classify on this list:
* Tamasaba or sabao
* Meteor goldfish
* Curled-gill goldfish or reversed-gill goldfish
New varieties
* Azuma nishiki - a nacreous-colored oranda
* Muse - a cross between a tosakin and an azuma nishiki with black eyes and white translucent scales
* Aurora - a cross between a shubunkin and an azuma nishiki or between a calico jikin and a tosakin
* Willow - a long and willowy telescope-eyed comet or shubunkin
* Dragon eye ranchu or squid ranchu - a telescope eyed ranchu variety
* Singachu or sakura singachu - a ranchu variant
Revived varieties
* Osaka ranchu - a ranchu relative
* Izumo nankin - a ranchu-like variety
(Copied from website: allpetlist.com)
Should I add the part about colors in the attributes section? I couldn't think of what to put in there. Are the tank sizes I listed correct? (I wasn't totally sure about those)
Hmmmm.... True, colors are very much stabilized after goldfish have reached adulthood, but still, color shift remains quite a possibility. As (red/white) goldies age, many of them tend to shift towards one solid color or the other, and few will remain nicely parti-colored their entire lives. Blacks, browns, blues, and purples, are indeed more likely to remain so on adult fish, but the intensity and spread of such colors can always be influenced. Of course, color enhancing food and environmental concerns such as water quality and light intensity also play a role in color concerns regardless of a fish's age. If you'd like I can send you some threads from another goldfish forum that show some marked (care related) color changes in fully adult (HUGE!!!) goldfish.
under decorations-don't goldies have trouble swimming backwards-so caves or other decorations should be large enough for fish to turn around in and swim out, or so small the fish can't enter.
I have fish shaped pitcher in Jack's tank that he will soon be too large to turn around and swim out of, so when I move him to the new tank, the pitcher won't be moving.
Ellen
I have fish shaped pitcher in Jack's tank that he will soon be too large to turn around and swim out of, so when I move him to the new tank, the pitcher won't be moving.
Ellen
Feeding section looks good but I wouldn't plug Hikari only. Good options are Hikari, Omega One, New Life Spectrum, Pro-Gold.
Here's how I would revise those classes. My personal comments are in italics.
Single Tail Pond
Comet - includes Sarasa Comet & Standard Comet
Common (Hibuna/Funa)
Shubunkin - includes London Shubunkin, Bristol Shubunkin and Japanese/American Shubunkin
Tamasaba - a single-tailed ryukin-like variety, good pond fish, vigorous & aggressive feeders.
Double-Tail Pond
Watonai
Wakin
Vigorous Fancies
Oranda
Ryukin
Fantail - An older variety that isn't seen much anymore. Good swimmers, aggressive.
Pompom - These can be of any variety but are usually orandas. Good swimmers.
Delicate Fancies
Bubble Eye
Celestial
Black Moor
Ranchu
Lionhead
Eggfish
Demekin
Veiltail - Fantail with a long, drooping tail. Medium swimmer, needs less water flow.
Special Needs
Tosakin - Such special needs it really requires its own class.
--------------
These other varieties aren't real.
* Meteor goldfish - these are artificially produced goldfish in which the tail fin is amputated. not a true type. i'd leave them off the list.
* Curled-gill goldfish or reversed-gill goldfish - these are generally seen as a defect and usually culled. they can show up in any variety. leave them off the list.
New varieties
* Azuma nishiki - a nacreous-colored oranda - fancy name for a calico oranda.
* Muse - a cross between a tosakin and an azuma nishiki with black eyes and white translucent scales - it's a color morph and not a true type.
* Aurora - a cross between a shubunkin and an azuma nishiki or between a calico jikin and a tosakin - calico mutt. not a true type.
* Willow - a long and willowy telescope-eyed comet or shubunkin - i can't find any information about these and i've never heard of them. not a true type.
* Dragon eye ranchu or squid ranchu - a telescope eyed ranchu variety - these are simply a bubble eye variant. not a true type.
* Singachu or sakura singachu - a ranchu variant - a color morph.
Revived varieties
* Osaka ranchu - a ranchu relative
* Izumo nankin - a ranchu-like variety
These are variants on the ranchu. I wouldn't include them.
Ellen has a good point about the ornaments. I don't think hollow ornaments are a good choice for goldfish tanks, period. They accumulate detrius, foster stagnant water, and can pose a health hazard if the opening is too small. Goldfish can get stuck inside them.
------------
True- you can get some color shift, for example the edges of patterns can shift or blend, but I don't agree with you completely. In well-bred red/white goldfish, red or white patches shouldn't disappear altogether or move around. Goldfish bred for the red/white color should develop a pattern early in life and keep that pattern into adulthood. Calicos are up in the air throughout their first two years and can still shift a bit after that, but should settle down at two years. You can have difference in the intensity of color and slight changes in hue, but patterns will not change.
Here's how I would revise those classes. My personal comments are in italics.
Single Tail Pond
Comet - includes Sarasa Comet & Standard Comet
Common (Hibuna/Funa)
Shubunkin - includes London Shubunkin, Bristol Shubunkin and Japanese/American Shubunkin
Tamasaba - a single-tailed ryukin-like variety, good pond fish, vigorous & aggressive feeders.
Double-Tail Pond
Watonai
Wakin
Vigorous Fancies
Oranda
Ryukin
Fantail - An older variety that isn't seen much anymore. Good swimmers, aggressive.
Pompom - These can be of any variety but are usually orandas. Good swimmers.
Delicate Fancies
Bubble Eye
Celestial
Black Moor
Ranchu
Lionhead
Eggfish
Demekin
Veiltail - Fantail with a long, drooping tail. Medium swimmer, needs less water flow.
Special Needs
Tosakin - Such special needs it really requires its own class.
--------------
These other varieties aren't real.
* Meteor goldfish - these are artificially produced goldfish in which the tail fin is amputated. not a true type. i'd leave them off the list.
* Curled-gill goldfish or reversed-gill goldfish - these are generally seen as a defect and usually culled. they can show up in any variety. leave them off the list.
New varieties
* Azuma nishiki - a nacreous-colored oranda - fancy name for a calico oranda.
* Muse - a cross between a tosakin and an azuma nishiki with black eyes and white translucent scales - it's a color morph and not a true type.
* Aurora - a cross between a shubunkin and an azuma nishiki or between a calico jikin and a tosakin - calico mutt. not a true type.
* Willow - a long and willowy telescope-eyed comet or shubunkin - i can't find any information about these and i've never heard of them. not a true type.
* Dragon eye ranchu or squid ranchu - a telescope eyed ranchu variety - these are simply a bubble eye variant. not a true type.
* Singachu or sakura singachu - a ranchu variant - a color morph.
Revived varieties
* Osaka ranchu - a ranchu relative
* Izumo nankin - a ranchu-like variety
These are variants on the ranchu. I wouldn't include them.
Ellen has a good point about the ornaments. I don't think hollow ornaments are a good choice for goldfish tanks, period. They accumulate detrius, foster stagnant water, and can pose a health hazard if the opening is too small. Goldfish can get stuck inside them.
------------
True- you can get some color shift, for example the edges of patterns can shift or blend, but I don't agree with you completely. In well-bred red/white goldfish, red or white patches shouldn't disappear altogether or move around. Goldfish bred for the red/white color should develop a pattern early in life and keep that pattern into adulthood. Calicos are up in the air throughout their first two years and can still shift a bit after that, but should settle down at two years. You can have difference in the intensity of color and slight changes in hue, but patterns will not change.
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Thanks for the list flare! What about Jikins, though? I'm going to stick the color part in the attribute section. I had the chart but my computer deleted my post :wall: I'm just posting the species I had filled in.
Oranda
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8-10"
Fantail
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"+
Veiltail
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"+
Blk. Moor
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8-10"
Common
Min. Tank size: 55/pond
Adult size: 12-14"
Comet
Min. Tank size: 55/pond
Adult size: 12-14"
Shubunkin
Min. Tank size: 50/pond
Adult size: 12"+
Wakin
Min. Tank size: 90/pond
Adult size: 18"
Bubble Eye
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Celestial
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Telescope
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Ryukin
Min. Tank size: 50/pond
Adult size: 8-10"
Pearlscale
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8"+
Lionhead
Min. Tank size: ??
Adult size: 10"
So.. edit away! (I'm sure there's tons of mistakes! lol)
Oranda
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8-10"
Fantail
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"+
Veiltail
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"+
Blk. Moor
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8-10"
Common
Min. Tank size: 55/pond
Adult size: 12-14"
Comet
Min. Tank size: 55/pond
Adult size: 12-14"
Shubunkin
Min. Tank size: 50/pond
Adult size: 12"+
Wakin
Min. Tank size: 90/pond
Adult size: 18"
Bubble Eye
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Celestial
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Telescope
Min. Tank size: 25
Adult size: 8"
Ryukin
Min. Tank size: 50/pond
Adult size: 8-10"
Pearlscale
Min. Tank size: 30
Adult size: 8"+
Lionhead
Min. Tank size: ??
Adult size: 10"
So.. edit away! (I'm sure there's tons of mistakes! lol)
Jikin! I forgot. Well, they were developed from wakin and are best in ponds, so I would class them in the double-tail pond category.
Eeek... I know this is a big controversy and some people doubt they can actually reach this size...
But I would change comet, common, shubunkin to max size 18 inches. I personally have zero doubt about that.
Additionally, I think all the active fancies should have a minimum of 30 gals and max size of 10 inches. Dorsal-less varieties like ranchu can get away with minimum of 25 gals and max size is probably 8 inches, although I'm not totally sure about that.
Wakin (and watonai) should have a minimum tank size of 60 gals, as should common/comet/shubunkin.
There's my .02! Everything else looks great. Thanks for working so hard on this!
Eeek... I know this is a big controversy and some people doubt they can actually reach this size...
But I would change comet, common, shubunkin to max size 18 inches. I personally have zero doubt about that.
Additionally, I think all the active fancies should have a minimum of 30 gals and max size of 10 inches. Dorsal-less varieties like ranchu can get away with minimum of 25 gals and max size is probably 8 inches, although I'm not totally sure about that.
Wakin (and watonai) should have a minimum tank size of 60 gals, as should common/comet/shubunkin.
There's my .02! Everything else looks great. Thanks for working so hard on this!
