Mafia #69: Ghost Hunters Game Thread

[BioHazard]

I believe that you were scum in the last game, so wouldn't this advice have been given to you in scum-chat?

I believe it was given to me by Jpap, after the game was over, and I was lamenting my poor performance in the chat room. The scum chat for the last game was made available for all to read after the game ended. The link should still be available in the last game, if you wish to look it over. I believe you will be completely unimpressed with my "scumminess"! :lol2:

 

[Kashta]

Do I buy the notion that Ice genuinely believes (if innocent) that the value of his contribution to this game is greater if he's dead (to communicate/invest with dead innocents) than if alive (posting, voting, debating, rooting scum)? Not for a minute. That's a load of crap. Ice is well aware of his worth to the town for his ability to poke through smokescreens and call people out for suspicious behaviors. And that's where my problem with Ice's remark lies.

When he first said it, he was under no pressure. No real interest about him had come up.. no votes on him.. no one questioning him. The probability at that time that Ice would actually get lynched on Day 1 was slim to none. Since making the statement, however, Ice has drawn votes and has been grilled about this by several people. The town's focus has shifted his direction, he's picked up several votes, and many people are now questioning his motives, agenda, and possible allegiance. In that situation, trying to retract what he said would be disasterous. Ice is no simpleton and would take care to guard against reacting badly when he's under some pressure. For Ice to survive, he needs to take it all in stride. He stands by the statement he made, doesn't try to weasel his way out of this, fields questions about it without overreacting to them, and clarified his meaning/intent wherever necessary. Grace under pressure demonstrated by a consummate mafia player.

Unfortunately, none of this helps us in any way to determine whether Ice is innocent or evil. Ice would respond to this situation exactly as he has done regardless of his role. Ice's reaction to all the scrutiny interests me now a lot less than the reaction this has drawn from other players.

There was one little naggy detail in the back of my mind when I voted Ice.. and I'm giving that a little more weight now than I did yesterday. That is..... JL has become an instigator of sorts in this game who has already (on Day 1) managed to point our focus and our votes toward 2 leading lynch candidates... first FF and then Ice. Whether this was intentional and he's giggling about this in the scum den or unintentional... wish I could tell.

A simple exchange between FF and JL...

Looks like I have to go old school -

I vote to lynch Fishfriend1.

He was the first one to role play.

I should have known from reading the earlier threads that this would happen. I hope you dont plan to keep you vote there John, that would be bad for both of us.

....... has resulted in this:

My vote on FF was a joke vote, but his response was no joke.

.....

And this:

(5) FF - JL (19) JRR (87) CCM (145) Annie (155) Rich (216) ILM (332)

Whether JL is innocent or evil (for the moment)...... who among those 5 other voters also make good mafia suspects?

I can accept JRR and CCM voting as they did at the time they made their votes. Neither of them have dealt with FF and his nonsense as much as the rest of us have. Fairly quick votes from new (returning) players seems reasonable where FF is concerned.

IMO both Annie and Rich stand out a lot more as potential scum who (when they're evil) generally like to sit back, lie low, and let someone like JL hand FF's head over to us on a silver platter.

As does... the way ILM conveniently jumped on at the end of the line where she likely thinks it'd be easy to claim she was mislead by other opinions should FF get killed and prove to be innocent.

For that matter, Annie's later retraction off FF to vote Lab Rat (all by himself) would be a very good move for scum to disassociate himself from helping to lynch an innocent. Annie's singleton vote on Lab is safer and less consequential once the imminent death of a townie is well assured.

 

[Madcrawdad]

I thought about what Ice had posted in regards to welcoming a lynch as he was quite good at picking out the scumbags when he wasnt forced to be conservative in what he posted in the Gunslinger game, which I'm sure you remember.

However, upon further consideration I realized it would never be a good idea to vote for someone you suspect might be innocent, which I am beginning to suspect Ice may be, as a result of what he has posted thusfar. Hunchy I know, but thats all I've got.

I don't remember the exact quote, but I think the gist of Ice's original statement was that he wasn't afraid to be lynched, not that he was requesting everyone vote for him.

The fact that it took "further consideration" for you decide to not vote for someone you thought was innocent, is odd, as IMO lynching a suspected innocent would ALWAYS be a bad idea.

I was not sure what he thought before he role-played, however, the role playing could be to back you up, I don't know.

Pretty sure that FF mentioned in the sign-up thread that he was going to role-play. How could his role-play back up a teammate?

The biggest thing that bothers me right now is LR and Kash saying they see Ice as scum yet they are both voting for Ice instead of FF. The problem I see with that is this is how Ice wants them to vote. If you distrust Ice why vote the way he wants you to vote?

Dawg, this is a really odd statement. LR/Kash finding Ice scummy, but not voting for FF bothers you? And since they apparently find Ice scummy they shouldn't vote him because Ice wants them to? IMO there's some really strange logic being used here.

 

[johnlarson66]

Let's talk about this post here -

How is leaving a vote on an innocent not bad for scum? (not saying he is, just that it would be bad for a scum member)

I will also say this : how many people want ME as the guy who invest first? (this is to innocents only)

Notice that is makes sense, that it is well thought out?

Also notice that Ice agrees with this and speaks up about the investigation from the first dead innocent.

Does anyone find any of this suspicious?

The whole idea of it being bad for the town to have FF do the first investigation was FF's idea. I also 100% disagree about that. I think if, (a big if at that), FF is in the position to do an investigation, he will do just fine.

 

[Kashta]

Later in the thread, these posts from JL...

Looks like FF might have a new BFF.

So, Ice, now that you are not looking at FF as a suspect, where are you going to look? Really, how do you determine your day one vote?

1 - JL makes sure everyone notices a defense possibility exists of FF by Ice.

I welcome a lynching. That way I can send in investigations. If the Gunslinger game taught me anything I do better just sitting back and watching with no reason to feel I need to post in a way that it can't be turned against me.
So if anyone thinks I'm protecting FF because we are both evil or that I'm evil and know FF is innocent then get on with it.

My vote on FF was a joke vote, but his response was no joke.

Of course the town wants to lynch scum over an innocent. Now it has been brought up about which is better, lynching an innocent vet of an innocent noob. My biggest concern would be if the player would still be playing. Could we trust if the person that is now dead would still follow along and particapate. To me it is not vet vs noob at all.

So if an innocent were to get lynched I would hope it would be one that stayed into the game. I think FF and Ice both would keep up with the game.

Ice, do you think FF would screw up the investigations? How? Is there a "wrong" investigation?

2 - Reinforces the idea that Ice may be protecting FF by claiming he's incapable of choosing decent investigations.

IMO, those that have been posting and are saying certain players "need watched", but themselves have not voted or really have stated anything concrete are very high on my suspect list.

If you have a suspect, then vote for them or atleast tell us who your suspects are.

Going to break out the "T" word now that FF has 4 votes?

3 - Unrelated post where JL asks a good question I'd personally rather see him answer for us. JL's vote has stayed on FF this whole time... yet he seems to using his case against FF here to justify a spin-off case against Ice instead. Interesting that he maintains his suspicion at this point where it was on FF instead of following his own lead to vote Ice.

So who is willing to go with Ice's plan? I don't think I am. I think Ice has become quite the drama queen the last few games. My guess is that his willingness to get lynched is his way of saying "look at me, I am an innocent and willing to get lynched instead of a noob to help the town", knowing that the town would not willingly lynch an innocent. Ice has switched up his play style in the past few games so it is hard what to think of it all.

I think Ice is a good suspect. I think it would be worth lynching him to find out what he is. I would like to see FF gone first. I would like to see FF understand how his input can be a distraction and to think before he posts. He contridicts himself. He is his own worst enemy. His heart is in the right place, he just needs to slow down some.

A FF vs Ice race would be just fine for me, it will show us where people stand.

4 - Taken by itself when I read it, this post from JL made very good points against Ice. I agreed with his comment the town was less likely to vote Ice. I'd wondered about Ice's play style lately, as well, with the goal in mind to stop the mafia from hitting him so fast in so many games.

Looking back at this now, within a larger scope... a more overall perspective... the last line bothers me a great deal.

And now... all those posts and little nudges in Ice's direction, seem to have resulted in this:

(5) Ice - Lab (180) Kashta (188) Bio (194) Mael (287) Noods (347)



Tell us, John. Now that you've got the FF vs Ice race you wanted.... to show where people stand.... what do you think of it? Which players among these voters catch your fuller attention at this point?

 

[johnlarson66]

What was the motivation for Ice to suggest that lynching an "innoncent" FF would be bad for the town? How is lynching an "innocent" Ice better for the town.

I think they are both scum, but lets say they both are innocent, which one is more of an asset alive?

 

[johnlarson66]

Kash, if FF comes up as the prime evil, then those going along with Ice's plan will be top of my list after Ice is lynched.

 

[Fishfriend1]

you all do know i have yet to vote, right? And I pretty much decide the outcome of today's lynch.

 

[johnlarson66]

Also, lets say that FF is lynched and was innocent and becomes a good spirit, well the evils get a hit and that person will be an innocent and they will join the good spirits also.

So FF will not be alone, if he is innocent.

Why in the world would Ice sacrifice himself for FF? For the good of the town for some investigations?

 

[johnlarson66]

you all do know i have yet to vote, right? And I pretty much decide the outcome of today's lynch.

You will save yourself by voting Ice.