High NitrAtes with a heavily planted tank??

[plantbrain]

I thought with EI dosing you are supposed to change 50% of the water per week to "reset" the tank.

50% is just simply a convenient example, you can modify it, say do 80%, weekly water changes, or say 30%, but the possible error will go up with less %/less frequency, and down with more frequency and larger % water change.
50% is just an arbitrary example, there's no "have to do 50%" about it. Never was.

If you wish to explore these errors without doing all the math, one may do so with this modeling calculator:

Graphing:
http://ei.petalphile.com/

Nutrient dosing
http://calc.petalphile.com/

I use 2-4 week water changes on some tanks.
2x a week on one and then weekly on most.

Still, you can easily target a routine you desire with a little eye balling the dosing and and the plant response. Simply start with a non limitin glevel for the nutrients, then SLOW and PROGRESSIVELY redeuce a little bit each week and watch.
Once you hit a negative response, then you adjust the last highest dosing level.

At that point, you can likely do very few water changes, since the uptake and the demand is specific for your tank.

This works well if the CO2 and the light are well balanced, so less light will help almost universally, typically in the 1.5w/gal range for T5 over a deep tank say 24" deep etc.
Less light = less CO2 demand, so CO2 is easier to dose.
Then less light= less nutrient demand as well.

So now you have the most wiggle room, or the highest degree of management stability(or "user neglect" without poor results).
Then dosing is even easier. It's only as hard as folks make it.

Less light, good CO2, and common sense dosing.
Still, good sized water changes never hurt a CO2/Excel enriched planted tank I've had or seen.
So it's a good way to remove errors we make.

But if you wanna use them test kits, calibrate, otherwise it's pretty much just a guess that they are correct.
This is counter to the dogma and advice typically given. But if you think about it and know anything about Science, you know they must claibrate their methods to make sure the test work correctly, no guessing.
That's not honest.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[James0816]

^ +1

It has taken me right at about two months of adjusting the ferts to get where I wanted to be. I needed to be able to do smaller water changes so as to not impact certain tanks very much. Now granted, there is always the disclaimer of "results may vary". I must say that. And, it is the beauty of EI dosing in that you control what, when and how much.

Every time I do larger water changes (>25%), I suffer losses. And it's not for lack of trying as all my water changes are done using drip lines for the new water going back in. I may be overly cautious, but the results show. Flora and Fauna are responding nicely.

 

[plantbrain]

Use the modeling graphing calculator to see where the errors might be.
This offers a lot more predicative utility than testing in most cases and expectations.
With good calibrated test kits, you can also verify the model and adjust to suit your needs, but....testing is not required usign a test kit, rather, the plants etc..become the test method with the above suggested "test". Since we are concerned with the plants, not really a ppm of NO3 or PO4, this is a far better "test method" for our needs, since it applies to our goal, nice plants.

 

[coach_z]

Before I saw tom's suggestions mine was going to be:
Only 40? so what!
I usually start to worry around 80 because then I know something changed.

 

[Cerianthus]

Before ANYONE suggest any changes, 1st is there anything wrong with the tank?
Second, have you calibrated the test kit to ensure it is actually reading accurate over the desired range?
NO3 test kits are simply put, terrible and all over the plant. Unless you calibrate them with a KNOWN standard reference, there is little you can say.

You should make a set of known solutions then test the test kit.
Then you will have confidence(or not), in the test reading.

Do you need 40ppm?
No.......
Does it do any harm?
Absolutely not.

10-30ppm is fine.

Still, without correct test methods, the reading is meaningless.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...83545-calibrating-test-kits-non-chemists.html
If you have a nice scale and want to do a more precise method, this can be done, but the above link will make it fairly easy for the typical plant hobbyist.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I agree! NO need to worry as 40ppm or even bit higher is absolutely acceptable.

That link reminded me of Quant Anal Class, not that I remembered much anymore

 

[James0816]

Yeah...but when your breeding sensitive species like Oto's and shrimps .... 40 is actually a very big deal.

 

[Cerianthus]

Sensitive? At least I dont consider them to be sensitive nor most commonly avail livestocks when ideal conditions were/are provided during shipments as well as in the tanks and I cant think of a DIRECT link from NO3 to fish health at that levels for most common livestocks. But nevertheless, it's your tank and your call!

 

[James0816]

it's your tank and your call!

You're right there!

Oto breeding tank = sensitive tank. Regardless what anyone else may think. If they weren't breeding, it wouldn't bother me as much.

 

[Cerianthus]

Wondering why you even bother to start this thread when your mind was already made up?

Personally, Only sensitive fish I know in general are ones that I have hard/difficult time getting my hands on without costing an arm & a leg due to difficulties with shipping (not just water but its tempermant as well), mostly wild specimen.

If fish are readily available without costing an arm and a leg, I personally dont consider them sensitive. Just my view!

I read many who spawned Oto in this and other forums. I believe there are other things you could try to stimulate spawning.

Good Luck with Spawning!

 

[fishycat]

Shed some light on this for me if someone can....

Heavily planted tanks. Some pretty thick you can't see to the back. EI and PMDD dosing (some tanks EI, some PMDD). Routine weekly water changes.

Do water tests today and so far (3) tanks have tested => 40 NitrAtes!

Just really confused with the maintenance and the plants that this parm is so high.

Needless to say, performing an additional 20% water change at the moment.

Just a little confused as to why so high.

Wondering why you even bother to start this thread when your mind was already made up?

Personally, Only sensitive fish I know in general are ones that I have hard/difficult time getting my hands on without costing an arm & a leg due to difficulties with shipping (not just water but its tempermant as well), mostly wild specimen.

If fish are readily available without costing an arm and a leg, I personally dont consider them sensitive. Just my view!

I read many who spawned Oto in this and other forums. I believe there are other things you could try to stimulate spawning.

Good Luck with Spawning!

James doesn't need extra luck - he's got an amazing history of breeding oto's with the journal thread to prove it! :thm:

That being said, I think that his question isn't how he can encourage spawning, but just wanting clarification/feedback on why nitrates in his tank were at 40ppm when, in his mind, they should be lower in a heavily planted tank.

Are you dosing NO3? I'd be wary of changing things, because everyone (with the exception of the brigs) have been pretty darned happy in your tanks.