Unfortunately "experience" too often leads, not to knowledge, but to condescension and is used as a club to beat those who question it.
Veggies for oto's.
- Thread starter Nepherael
- Start date
Unfortunately "experience" too often leads, not to knowledge, but to condescension and is used as a club to beat those who question it.
I read all of the first page, but then skimmed the second...I really don't wish to discuss/debate this further, just going to say that I have personally never had luck putting otos in a tank that wasn't mature. For me (and this is only MY experience) they looked rather pale and weren't constantly on the move. A dark and active oto is a happy oto 
Perhaps others have been able to put them in a new tank, but it is my experience that they do best in an aged tank. I have put them in tanks where I took the stuff out of an aged tank (substrate, plants, etc.) because of upgrading, and that has been fine, however that's not the same as a squeaky clean tank with artificial decorations. The diatoms, green algae and aufwuchs that otos prefer to eat and graze on are just not going to be on a tank that is so sterile. I'm not sure how long your tank was set up when you took that pic (could be an old pic from when you first started out) but while your tank looks beautiful, it's obviously a new set up. I suppose you're trying to make sure there is no algae, hence getting all the specialized algae feeders?
I want to again recommend the Repashy foods for herbivores. Especially if you're not planning on adding vegetables or not too thrilled about the idea of it, it's going to be the best substitute for fresh vegetable matter.
In my experience, otos won't eat lettuce - but neither will much of anything. Lettuce is pretty flavorless and non-nutritive, it has about the same appeal as carrots for fish (and by that I mean not much, but they'll eat it if they're starving). Here's a list of veggies most fish will accept, to varying degrees:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/feedingfis1/a/vegetarian.htm
When it comes to aquariums, there are a lot of subtle, vague things that are difficult to explain neatly. One of them is the concept of aged water and an aged tank. There are just certain fish that won't do well even if the water quality is superb from frequent water changes. When you set up your SW tank, you'll learn that pretty quick about anemones.
With freshwater fish, the cultivation of algae is a good sign that the tank is ready for the more delicate species that need a mature tank. This goes hand in hand with the fact that some of these species need to eat algae in order to do well - otos and Sewellia loaches are two examples of these. The best explanation I have is that fish need these natural foods for their digestive health - it's not a matter of just eating for calories, it's like the way it's good for humans to eat foods that have not been processed. Swallowing a multivitamin full of 100% of all your daily vitamins and minerals is probably not better for you than eating a big salad with lots of ingredients representing every color of the rainbow. This is common sense, and you just know that in humans - but in fish, we tend to think we can give them incredibly concentrated nutrition and have them be fine with just that, even though they are grazers in nature. (By the way, most fish *ARE* fine with just that, but I don't think they live up to their full potential. You'll note some people are fans of just giving New Life Spectrum to cichlids...I always offered my cichlids vegetables, in spite of them getting complete nutrition from a pellet food. I personally feel it is important to do so.)
I honestly believe that the natural algae and biofilm (aufwuchs) in a tank is like a form of "probiotic" for them and is essential to their health. Vegetables and algae tabs provide two different kinds of nutrients, for one thing I'm positive that the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in vegetables are better for them than what you find in commercial food. Maybe not in quantity but they are more readily absorbed. Herbivorous fish need a plant based diet, but it can't all just be dry commercial food. The gel foods that Repashy makes are kind of a breakthrough in this regard...you should look into them, especially for your Sewellia loach.
Incidentally, how many otos do you have total? They really seem to need to be kept in large groups for the most natural behavior, I've never had mine live very long once they were down to like 3-4 specimens.
And by the way, do you have a background? (Maybe you do...or maybe you just have that awesome wall in your house!) Fish always seem to darken up and feel more comfortable when there is a background....light coming up from behind them seems to make them uncomfortable, at least in my experience.
Perhaps others have been able to put them in a new tank, but it is my experience that they do best in an aged tank. I have put them in tanks where I took the stuff out of an aged tank (substrate, plants, etc.) because of upgrading, and that has been fine, however that's not the same as a squeaky clean tank with artificial decorations. The diatoms, green algae and aufwuchs that otos prefer to eat and graze on are just not going to be on a tank that is so sterile. I'm not sure how long your tank was set up when you took that pic (could be an old pic from when you first started out) but while your tank looks beautiful, it's obviously a new set up. I suppose you're trying to make sure there is no algae, hence getting all the specialized algae feeders?
I want to again recommend the Repashy foods for herbivores. Especially if you're not planning on adding vegetables or not too thrilled about the idea of it, it's going to be the best substitute for fresh vegetable matter.
In my experience, otos won't eat lettuce - but neither will much of anything. Lettuce is pretty flavorless and non-nutritive, it has about the same appeal as carrots for fish (and by that I mean not much, but they'll eat it if they're starving). Here's a list of veggies most fish will accept, to varying degrees:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/feedingfis1/a/vegetarian.htm
When it comes to aquariums, there are a lot of subtle, vague things that are difficult to explain neatly. One of them is the concept of aged water and an aged tank. There are just certain fish that won't do well even if the water quality is superb from frequent water changes. When you set up your SW tank, you'll learn that pretty quick about anemones.
With freshwater fish, the cultivation of algae is a good sign that the tank is ready for the more delicate species that need a mature tank. This goes hand in hand with the fact that some of these species need to eat algae in order to do well - otos and Sewellia loaches are two examples of these. The best explanation I have is that fish need these natural foods for their digestive health - it's not a matter of just eating for calories, it's like the way it's good for humans to eat foods that have not been processed. Swallowing a multivitamin full of 100% of all your daily vitamins and minerals is probably not better for you than eating a big salad with lots of ingredients representing every color of the rainbow. This is common sense, and you just know that in humans - but in fish, we tend to think we can give them incredibly concentrated nutrition and have them be fine with just that, even though they are grazers in nature. (By the way, most fish *ARE* fine with just that, but I don't think they live up to their full potential. You'll note some people are fans of just giving New Life Spectrum to cichlids...I always offered my cichlids vegetables, in spite of them getting complete nutrition from a pellet food. I personally feel it is important to do so.)
I honestly believe that the natural algae and biofilm (aufwuchs) in a tank is like a form of "probiotic" for them and is essential to their health. Vegetables and algae tabs provide two different kinds of nutrients, for one thing I'm positive that the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in vegetables are better for them than what you find in commercial food. Maybe not in quantity but they are more readily absorbed. Herbivorous fish need a plant based diet, but it can't all just be dry commercial food. The gel foods that Repashy makes are kind of a breakthrough in this regard...you should look into them, especially for your Sewellia loach.
Incidentally, how many otos do you have total? They really seem to need to be kept in large groups for the most natural behavior, I've never had mine live very long once they were down to like 3-4 specimens.
And by the way, do you have a background? (Maybe you do...or maybe you just have that awesome wall in your house!) Fish always seem to darken up and feel more comfortable when there is a background....light coming up from behind them seems to make them uncomfortable, at least in my experience.
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I love O. cocoma/zebra otos. But the price for them is a bit steep for me. FYI, James0816 has been trying to breed them, too, but without success so far ... I'm starting to sound like a paid spammer for James' breeding program.
Not meaning to. It's just that he's the only source I know of for tank-bred, tank-raised otos, and he's right here on AC, which I think is kinda cool.Thanks, Platy, for the reminder about Repashy for herbivores, which I'll look into for my own otos. Also, I appreciate your thoughts on the aged-tank issue. It's really not something that's easy to quantify, and you did a much better job of explaining it than I did.A dark and active oto is a happy oto
...
When it comes to aquariums, there are a lot of subtle, vague things that are difficult to quantify or explain neatly. One of them is the concept of aged water and an aged tank. There are just certain fish that won't do well even if the water quality is superb from frequent water changes. When you set up your SW tank, you'll learn that pretty quick about anemones.
With freshwater fish, the cultivation of algae is a good sign that the tank is ready for the more delicate species that need a mature tank. This goes hand in hand with the fact that some of these species need to eat algae in order to do well - otos and Sewellia loaches are two examples of these. The best explanation I have is that fish need these natural foods for their digestive health - it's not a matter of just eating for calories, it's like the way it's good for humans to eat foods that have not been processed. Swallowing a multivitamin full of 100% of all your daily vitamins and minerals is probably not better for you than eating a salad with every color of the rainbow. This is common sense, and you just know that in humans - but in fish, we tend to think we can give them incredibly concentrated nutrition and have them be fine with just that, even though they are grazers in nature.
...
I honestly believe that the natural algae and biofilm (aufwuchs) in a tank is like a forum of "probiotic" for them and is essential to their health. Vegetables and algae tabs provide two different kinds of nutrients, for one thing I'm positive that the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in vegetables are greater than what you find in commercial food. Herbivorous fish need a plant based diet, but it can't all just be dry commercial food. The gel foods that Repashy makes are kind of a breakthrough in this regard...you should look into them, especially for your Sewellia loach.
"A dark and active oto is a happy oto
" ..... So very, very true!
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I love O. cocoma/zebra otos. But the price for them is a bit steep for me. FYI, James0816 has been trying to breed them, too, but without success so far ... I'm starting to sound like a paid spammer for James' breeding program.
Thanks, Platy, for the reminder about Repashy for herbivores, which I'll look into for my own otos. Also, I appreciate your thoughts on the aged-tank issue. It's really not something that's easy to quantify, and you did a much better job of explaining it than I did.
"A dark and active oto is a happy oto
Yeah with the limited looking I did for breeders it seemed to be a rough find but highly praised. Also I agree about an aged tank and the way platy explained it. I definitely understand there's something to that and it isn't just like math where 2+2=4, I see there's more to many situations in this hobby than that. I don't want to come off as an irresponsible owner. I'm admittedly impatient and will try to tackle a challenge as early as possible but only if I feel I'm not doing it at the expense of my fish. Platy also knows her foods (in my opinion) I've gone to her multiple times about feeding habits and choices. She has been excellent with her advice. In fact, I would have brought this same question to her if I didn't feel I was bugging her too much XD
Thanks for the input platy and I definitely see what you're saying. I'm glad you pointed out their color and activity. Mine are fully colored and having quite an enjoyable time in the tank. They've hardly even used their caves (they might at night) and have been swimming around the tank resting on plants or hanging on the glass (even hanging up by my spray bar).
In any case, your tank will definitely "age" so if anything...it should be easier, not harder to keep them happy...and they do sound happy!
You could also try nori, by the way - sold in the ethnic section of major grocery stores or at an Asian market, used for rolling sushi. It's a good alternative to vegetables, many SW fish like it too so perhaps it will be useful later You can use a veggie clip...or do what I do, which is just sink a piece of it with a plastic clothespin and then fish it out later on.
You could also try nori, by the way - sold in the ethnic section of major grocery stores or at an Asian market, used for rolling sushi. It's a good alternative to vegetables, many SW fish like it too so perhaps it will be useful later
You can use a veggie clip...or do what I do, which is just sink a piece of it with a plastic clothespin and then fish it out later on.
Oh, you're welcome - thank YOU also
You remind me that I'd like to try some of James' otos soon, I need some for my 20 gallon tank! It has blue shrimp, harlequin rasboras and Espei rasboras...and the shrimp just aren't making much of a dent in the algae on the glass. Besides, I just miss having otos - it's been a few years since my last few died (I like to think of old age, since they were about 4-5, but who knows?)
Thanks for the tip. Is that the dried seaweed sheets? I had seen it mentioned previously on an Oto site and was going to get it anyway just to see if my other fish liked it too (the guy said he called their support line to see if it was ok for FW fish since it was SEAweed and they said it was good to go). The stuff sounds great to add to their diet
Yep, roasted dried seaweed. They sell many brands, but this is what I use and have for many years:
Oh, you're welcome - thank YOU also
4-5 sounds about right based on what I read. I have to admit that I think they are the coolest catfish I've seen and, stock permitting, will probably choose them as the "algae control" for any community tank. Granted I haven't been around that long to see a huge amount of what is out there but the only suckermouth fish I think looks cooler is the zebra pleco (and those are BIG bucks)
I think those are primarily carnivores. Bulldog plecos have been my favorite of the commonly available herbivorous plecos, they and bristlenose are about all I can find locally that doesn't need a lot of protein in the diet.
