Freshwater tank issues

As Bryon said, I would do the substrate. There is a chance the vac will remove some developing cysts before they can fully develop and become free swimming. Kind of hit and miss...who knows where the fish was when they dropped off. Battery operated air pumps are also a nice addition to have if the need ever develops. If you get an ammonia spike from a gravel vac then just do a small area of the tank at a time. It doesn't have to be done all at once, especially on such a previously ill-kept tank.
 
Thanks to both of you! I did go ahead and do about half the gravel with the last water change. I also added a submersible air filter and since then all the fish that had hovered at the top no longer do. So far I'm keeping the nitrites under .25 ppm doing 50% water changes (two so far). No ammonia whatsoever since last night (when I started seeing nitrites climb). There is a ton of flow in the tank (bubbles everywhere) though I have the submersible filter turned upward but it still provides a lot of aeration. To clarify it's a 170 gph water pump with aerator. Is it possible to have to much aeration in a tank? Or possible to stress the fish with a lot of air flow? They do seem slightly more active (the gouramis actually are not in constant hiding) now, but I don't want to stress them further so I'm keeping all the lights off except for when I absolutely need them on. After seeing your post I did go out and pick up some battery pumps, just as a last resort if the generator failed or something ceased to function correctly. Probably never need them, but better to be safe than sorry. On the whole even with all the issues and deaths I'm glad I was given the tank. I find fish fascinating (but never had the space for them previously till I bought the new house last month). So I have to admit, I think I might be addicted to fish lol. Even though they aren't very active/doing all that much, I still watch them for hours. You come to care for them surprisingly fast!
 
Thanks to both of you! I did go ahead and do about half the gravel with the last water change. I also added a submersible air filter and since then all the fish that had hovered at the top no longer do. So far I'm keeping the nitrites under .25 ppm doing 50% water changes (two so far).

One advantage of the salt is with nitrite; salt does help the fish handle nitrite in their bloodstream. The Prime should detoxify it before it gets into the blood, but still good to know.

No ammonia whatsoever since last night (when I started seeing nitrites climb). There is a ton of flow in the tank (bubbles everywhere) though I have the submersible filter turned upward but it still provides a lot of aeration. To clarify it's a 170 gph water pump with aerator. Is it possible to have to much aeration in a tank? Or possible to stress the fish with a lot of air flow?

In this situation the answer to both questions is no, within reason of course, since we are here dealing with major problems and increased water movement will keep oxygen coming into the water and CO2 leaving the water, and this is good. I don't think you need to go beyond what you now have running though.

Under normal circumstances, in a balanced healthy fish tank, yes, too much air flow/water movement can be very detrimental, depending upon the fish species. Some fish occur in fairly fast-flowing streams, so a river habitat with a good filter flow will mean happier, healthier fish. But with fish from ponds, swamps, quiet forest streams, this sort of aquascape would be debilitating for such fish like gourami, betta, discus, some characins, etc. These type of fish are usually not active swimmers, and like to quietly cruise around the tank, and fighting water currents takes energy and wears down the fish. I'm being very general here, obviously; there are several factors in this question, but I just wanted to give you a basic understanding. This is one aspect of a fish's habitat that the aquarist must understand since not all fish can manage the same in any tank. But dealing with health issues and nitrification takes precedence and it will be short-term.

They do seem slightly more active (the gouramis actually are not in constant hiding) now, but I don't want to stress them further so I'm keeping all the lights off except for when I absolutely need them on. After seeing your post I did go out and pick up some battery pumps, just as a last resort if the generator failed or something ceased to function correctly. Probably never need them, but better to be safe than sorry. On the whole even with all the issues and deaths I'm glad I was given the tank. I find fish fascinating (but never had the space for them previously till I bought the new house last month). So I have to admit, I think I might be addicted to fish lol. Even though they aren't very active/doing all that much, I still watch them for hours. You come to care for them surprisingly fast!

Nothing beats a water change. At the first sign of trouble, usually even before I have diagnosed what it might be, I do a major water change. The fish always respond positively. I think you're on the right road, and although some fish may not be able to make it through, you will get there and hopefully with most of them.

Byron.
 
Thanks Bryon, after my second water change we do seem to be holding steady at 0 ammonia and nitrites. Though I did lose two of the glo fish danio with the four angels which is sad that I've lost any. But I'm hoping I can come through with most of the stock. There are gouramis in this tank and the flow does seem to discourage them from moving through the upper level (where most of the flow is) but given they were hovering at the top prior to the added water pump (now they swim around the lower level intermittently) I'm going to say the extra flow is a benefit as you said. Once the issue of nitrite/ammonia is dealt with I can always remove or turn off the air pump to slow the flow.
 
Well the water looks amazing, between 0-.25 nitrites, 0 ammonia. Unfortunately another of the angels did pass sometime in the night/early this morning. All the others seem to be doing very well, the gouramis are turning an electric blue which they've never been since I've had them. The tank temperature did drop to 80 (is this possibly from all the flow/surface agitation?). So I'm raising it back up slowly. Would it be acceptable to leave it at 80 for the ich? They seem to prefer that much more than the 84 it has been.
 
Well the water looks amazing, between 0-.25 nitrites, 0 ammonia. Unfortunately another of the angels did pass sometime in the night/early this morning. All the others seem to be doing very well, the gouramis are turning an electric blue which they've never been since I've had them. The tank temperature did drop to 80 (is this possibly from all the flow/surface agitation?). So I'm raising it back up slowly. Would it be acceptable to leave it at 80 for the ich? They seem to prefer that much more than the 84 it has been.

I would leave the temp; 3-4 degrees at this stage is not going to speed things up with respect to the ich, so if the fish are more comfortable, better at 80F. I've done the same myself for some fish species. B.
 
I would leave the temp; 3-4 degrees at this stage is not going to speed things up with respect to the ich, so if the fish are more comfortable, better at 80F. I've done the same myself for some fish species. B.

Good to know, I am seeing less ich on the two gouramis and none of the others have become visibly infected so hopefully it's dying and won't be making a comeback. The water params look good though no ammonia/nitrites. Only 5ppm Nitrates which I'm doing a water change for following this post:grinyes:
 
Good to know, I am seeing less ich on the two gouramis and none of the others have become visibly infected so hopefully it's dying and won't be making a comeback. The water params look good though no ammonia/nitrites. Only 5ppm Nitrates which I'm doing a water change for following this post:grinyes:

Nitrates are not as directly toxic as ammonia or nitrite, and keeping them no higher than 10 ppm with 20 ppm the absolute max is OK. If everything else is OK, and the fish are not stressed, it might be best not to do another change if one was already done today. Daily changes are OK re the ammonia and nitrite, but I wouldn't continue them if both these are zero. Test daily, first thing in the morning after tank lights are on, and proceed accordingly. This also saves you having to add salt, etc, more.

On the ich, maintain the salt level for a full week, though 10 days would probably be better, after spots are gone. You want to ensure all the ich is dealt with, and it can still be present with no visible spots. It first attacks fish gills, so any flashing might indicate this, though flashing also can mean ammonia and nitrite issues as well as other pathogens. Once the time is up, do water changes to slowly remove the salt over a period of days, and of course return the temp to normal. It is best to do this via letting the tank naturally cool with a lower heater setting, rather than abrupt temperature drops via water changes.

Byron.
 
Okay, thanks Bryon. Some of the other sites I've read said only 48 hours, but now I'll keep it going into next week. The fish seem to be perfectly fine with the salinity so long as the tank doesn't get to warm. They definitely prefer 80-82 over 84-86. They got extremely sluggish and when the temperature dropped they became much more active/colorful.

As for the nitrates, that's good. I haven't gone over about 5-8ppm but some of the places I'd been doing some reading on said that doing water changes for 5 and over was needed. The less I mess with the tank/fish the happier they will be I'm sure lol. I also hadn't performed a water change after my last post, all the numbers looked good and the fish seemed content so I didn't see a need to stress them by turning things off and changing some of the water.

Thanks again Bryon--and everyone else who posted with such good advice. I think the tank is finally in the clear, and without all the wonderful responses and help, that couldn't have happened. Next post I'll get a picture of what you helped to save!
 
its actually amazing that so many fish survived so far, considering that tank was overstocked, diseased, and completely uncycled those are three major reasons fish tend to die, clearly your doing a great job saving as many as you can! I can say when i started fish keeping, i was not nearly as dedicated and informed! Im 100% sure the fish will have a great home with you!

With the death of a few fish, the amount of fish left in the tank is less, and thats actually better for keeping that water more stable, diseased is under control mostly and it seems cycling is starting too, a new tank takes a while to fully cycle, so while the worst is over for the most part, theres still plenty of problems so dont be too surprised by more deaths, but keep doing what your doing and whatever fish are left will be infinity times more happy then when you got them c:
 
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