Advice on stocking a 6ft oscar tank

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fishorama

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Jun 28, 2006
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It's been a while but it seems like 2" loaches got 4" or so in a year but that may have been using the standard length (without including the tail) instead of total length. SL is/was the Euro-centric fish measurement. I kind of like that since body size, not fins is what counts to me. Fish that are bred for long fins or have tail extensions aren't "really" bigger than "normal" fish. But for bragging rights, total length rules!

I've been seeing very tiny clowns under an inch TL the last several years. I don't like fry being sold that small, they need extra care & some will likely not survive. Or the "dolphin nosed" short faced clowns that probably should have been culled. I blame the fish farmers for these sad trends. 1.5-2 inch clowns are probably close to a year old & are now medium or even large sized at lfs.

As I recall, their growth slowed at ~4" with males always bit smaller, more slender & slower growing. It took 2-3 years to go from 4 to 6+" for the largest chubby females.

As you know feeding more often & keeping water very clean helps fish to grow faster. I also used to treat loaches for internal parasites just in case. While maybe not necessary, parasites can slow growth & may be 1 cause of "skinny disease". I've used Levamisole or flubendazole (not fenbendazole) with botia type loaches. Something else to think about...
 

Kish

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Oct 12, 2019
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'Phone length' isn't a standard unit of measurement? Haha! Nah, totally get it. I'm going to make sure to find a reputable source and keep a proper log of how they grow this time.

Thanks for the tip on treating for internal parasites. Did you just treat them when you first get them in (e.g. in a quarantine tank)? I used to quarantine new fish for a couple of weeks with some Melafix. Would only treat for things if I saw a problem... I had to use Seachem Paraguard once on some rasboras that had ich but, other than that, I've had good luck.

Haven't got to thinking about the feeding schedule but had an idea to maybe cultivate some live food in the sump. Never done it before though, but I just moved to a remote area so can't just pop down to a LFS for some bags of brine shrimp. Thinking the loaches might appreciate some snails or worms or such...but got to figure out if it's a viable idea. Lots to think about.
 

fishorama

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Well, I have a flip phone...lol, so not a standard size or 5 inches...

Yes I treated in a smaller QT tank, it'd cost a fortune in your big tank!! I treated the first week I got the fish then again 2 weeks later to kill any newly hatched eggs. At least Levamisole doesn't kill eggs, I can't remember about flubendazole & eggs.

Snails like pond or ramshorns are "loach candy" but they can harbor disease I've read. Trumpet snails are more difficult for loaches to eat, but they can. They didn't seem to be favorites but my fish were very spoiled for food choices.

I had a colony of blackworms in my hillstream loach river tank. I thought they'd be a treat but none of my fish seemed interested. Sewellia did breed several times & now I don't see any worms after 3 or 4 years, maybe their tankmates ate them. My botias went nuts for them, no chance of a colony, lol.

I grew white worms in a plastic shoebox in my basement when I had 1. They were easy to grow but kind of a PITA to harvest many. I only remembered to feed them when I did laundry (oops) or they would have done better. It's too warm where I live now. It's good to have 2 or 3 batches going, colonies can crash for no apparent reason. A nice size for all but the smallest fish.

I also grew red wigglers in the basement but they smelled like the composting veggies they ate & fruit flies were a bit of a problem too. I wouldn't recommend them. These & white worms were for raising young discus but they & the clowns liked junior sized wigglers. I felt kind of bad when I fed too large 1s & the fish slowly ate them or played tug'o'war nor was I willing to snip them into bite sizes.

I'm not a fan of freeze dried foods, it's hard to get them to sink. & I will never again feed tubifex worms in any form. They're grown in almost sewage & while I can't be sure, I wondered if they were the cause of some disease outbreaks.

Frozen blood worms are easy & a nice size for most fish. I'm slightly allergic to them, not like an old lfs owner, he couldn't even stock them. You can get them by mail order or stock up when you venture to the big city. I used to get them from Ken's Fish, but he was localish for me then.
 

Kish

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Oct 12, 2019
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Queensland, Australia
Sewellia look awesome! I don't think I've ever seen them before.

Levamisole seems like a 'no regrets' kinda thing - found this resource yesterday thanks to your advice: https://www.loaches.com/disease-treatment/levamisole-hydrochloride-1. I'll treat them and keep some on hand. As you've aptly noted, some of the live food, particularly worms, can get pretty rancid and you just never know what your fish have been fed in the past. Like you, I got a bag of worms in brown filth once and I'll never do it again.

My old loaches loved any small snail but, like yours, didn't seem as interested in larger ones. I reckon when they're well fed, they don't see the need to put in the effort. The stimulation is probably good though.

You're definitely braver than me. I don't want to do too much outside the tank - sounds like it would get to be a pain. Plus, I can't take up any more of my house on fish-related things...getting out of control already! I also can't see myself chopping up live wrigglers either. Also totally agree with you on freeze dried blood worms and such. I bought this big jar once, then they just sat on top of the water and the fish couldn't seem to find them - frustrating. The only way I could use what I bought was to put them in one of those feeder rings so they didn't go everywhere. I figure they're more suited to bettas, etc.

It's a 3 hour round trip to the nearest fish shop for me...and they don't actually have a lot there. But I'll see what they can get me in if I buy in bulk, as you suggest. Alternatively, I can probably get some stuff online.

I'll see what can be safely done in the sump - maybe snails or some kind of worm; at least then I know where they came from. But I need to put more thought into the design. I had cherry shrimp for a while in a nano tank - they bred like crazy. So maybe I could chuck some cheap ghost shrimp in and see if they breed. I'm sure the loaches would love some shrimplets.

I've got a design for two large tanks, both with sumps. Getting the new house sorted, then will get quotes for them to be built. Super exciting
 

fishorama

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It sounds like you have a good grip on what you're willing to do & what you're not, that's a very good step. I see now that I see you're an Aussie (TY for that). I'm not sure of all the issues you may have there getting various foods, meds or animals. I know in parts of your country it gets at least as hot as N. Cali., at times anyway. I had a 10g cherry shrimp tank that bred like crazy, so that might be a good option for your sump. I've never kept ghost shrimp in their several species, worth a try with larger fish. But almost any fish can eat juvenile or adult cherry shrimp...I had a bit of trouble feeding them though, such cute animals...

I don't know how common basements in your area, like I said it's too hot here for white worms.

Flubendazole is fairly loach safe too. Again, it depends on what you can easily in your area...But I'm thinking in a sheep farming country levamisole might be easier to source.

I'm excited for your new tank (s?) too! We're going to need pics as you go along...
 

Kish

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Oct 12, 2019
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No basements here. I'm in an area that's flood-prone so houses tend to be on stilts. Warm and humid here, right by the beach.

I've found the perfect shrimp for me! They're called Australian Glass Shrimp (paratya australiensis). They're native to my area and I can get them very cheap. You can check them out here: https://www.livefish.com.au/10x-glass-shrimp-bag-of-8-12-paratya-australiensis-algae-eating.html. They're clear, tiny little things that don't get above ~2-3cm, so smaller than cherry shrimp. I'll be able to breed them easily as a food source in the sump. I've also decided to use them as a clean up crew instead of cherry shrimp in my planted tank - I like that they'll be hard to see and only really noticeable if you look carefully. I saw someone write that their blue acaras ate them up, so they should be perfect for my purposes!

Levamisole is very easy to get here and also really cheap, so that's handy. Also found a good aquarium supply store that sells a massive range of frozen foods online - everything I wanted. Will certainly have plenty of variety :)

Yeah, so there's going to be two tanks side by side that together will serve as room divider (just under 12.5' in total). There will be two with this shape: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/28166Skin.JPG. So, imagine that design mirrored, so that each tank is viewable from 3 sides with the side cabinetry for both sitting in the middle. They won't be connected; each tank will be completely independent and have its own sump. I want it designed that way in case I move house and need to separate them. The tank on one side will be ~4.5' long and the other ~6.5'. Both will be 2.5' deep and 2.5' high.

The smaller side will be a planted tank. Going to go for ADA substrate, a carpet of monte carlo and glosso mixed together, some driftwood and other plants. I'll have 6 discus (I'm thinking some red marlboro would look quite striking), a school of purple harlequin rasbora (one of my favourites!), a group of small corys (either corydoras kanei or leucomelas if I can find them) and some paratya australiensis shrimp.

The larger tank will be the one that we've been discussing. I've decided to go with Caribsea Sunset Gold substrate, which is good for bottom dwellers and digging fish and won't look too white/stark. I'll have large rounded grey rock, lots of interesting driftwood, narrow or needle leaf java fern and moss grafted on, some floating frogbit and maybe some water sprite and a few different crypts. It'll be trial and error to see what can survive with that mix of fish. Not planning on it being too heavily planted in any case.

Obviously, maintenance will be considerable but I have the time now to put in as many days a week as is necessary to maintain my tanks. Going to make sure the sump is designed for painless water changes, so I can just hose in and out. I'll be storing used aquarium water in an outdoor water storage tank so I can use it on my garden... (The garden will definitely appreciate it, plus we're in drought here so I don't want to waste good drinking water from my rain water tank on the garden.) To the extent that it's possible, I'll automate what I can. Now that I've decided what's going to be in each tank, I've started looking at automatic monitoring, dosing and top up systems, etc... A little way still to go on that part. Then I'll get it all built.

Will definitely post up photos as I go. I'm having the tanks and sumps custom made but I want to do all the design and planting myself. Going to dry start the carpet in the planted tank, which I've actually never done before. We'll see how that works out! Long way to go but it'll be fun
 

fishorama

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Wow! You're going all out with 2 big but very different tanks.

Those native Aussie shrimp sound perfect for all your possible fish. I'm not a huge brine shrimp fan...too small for big fish & too salty without rinsing. Many are grown very near me ;) But grown in your sump, super good!

I love your idea of a holding tank for WC water & your garden. I too live in a drought prone area, but we just do buckets thrown near favorite plants like our lemon tree.

Many people in my plant club have automated systems for at least some of their stuff but my tanks are spread all over my house.

From observing my club members' tanks, I'd say plant Monte Carlo at 1 end, glosso at the other & let them fight it out in the middle, lol. Will you have co2? I have the stuff but not the "gumption" to go there just yet. I like lower maintenance tanks...
 

The GingerFishman

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Something else to consider - Clown Loaches grow slowwwww. So the Oscars will easily outpace their growth. Make sure the loaches you get are medium sized so that they're not too small when the oscars are large within the year. I would keep them in a small school of 6 so that they're comfortable as a social fish and I'd do 6-7 SDs. I like the suggestion of rescuing a large Common Pleco because they're easy to find when their owners have to give them up because they didn't plan on such a large fish, or, you could get one of the many many many unique types of plecos, like a Blue Phantom, which is my personal favorite if you want something a little different.

One other idea I had, would be a school of about 6-7 medium sized Pictus Cats. You really can't go wrong with them as an attractive catfish with those long body length whiskers, silver bodies and cool spots all over them and from an entertainment perspective, these things are fun to watch. They're constantly zipping around all over the place and in a school, they'll swim around together, plus they'll quickly gobble up all the scraps that your oscars drop, but you def want to supplement any bottom feeding fish with sinking pellets/wafers as well. Also as a spiny catfish the Oscars would never bother them, plus they wouldn't be able to catch them if they tried, they're also too lazy to chase fast fish hahaha

G'luck!
 

Kish

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Oct 12, 2019
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Queensland, Australia
Something else to consider - Clown Loaches grow slowwwww. So the Oscars will easily outpace their growth. Make sure the loaches you get are medium sized so that they're not too small when the oscars are large within the year. I would keep them in a small school of 6 so that they're comfortable as a social fish and I'd do 6-7 SDs. I like the suggestion of rescuing a large Common Pleco because they're easy to find when their owners have to give them up because they didn't plan on such a large fish, or, you could get one of the many many many unique types of plecos, like a Blue Phantom, which is my personal favorite if you want something a little different.

One other idea I had, would be a school of about 6-7 medium sized Pictus Cats. You really can't go wrong with them as an attractive catfish with those long body length whiskers, silver bodies and cool spots all over them and from an entertainment perspective, these things are fun to watch.
Thanks for your response!

Yep...if you look at the previous posts on this thread, we've been discussing the growth rate differential and I've done an estimate of rates per year for each. The O might be 10" in the first year and full grown at around 3...but the loaches will only grow 0.5-2" per year after they get to around 4". So, if I go with clown loaches, there will definitely be 6 of them (they display much better behaviour when the group is that size)...and they'll be grown to 5" before introducing a juvenile oscar - that way, they'll be big enough even if their growth rate is at the bottom end of my estimate. It might take a while to get them to that size if I can only find juvenile clowns, but that's ok with me... It'll be a pretty cool tank with just the loaches and spotted silver $s anyway!

I actually mentioned pictus as an alternative on the first page of this this thread too for exactly the reasons that you mentioned! :) I used to keep and breed cuckoo cats (synodontis multipunctatus) with African cichlids - they're quite similar and I absolutely loved them... They were an awesome clean up crew - second only to my freshwater crab who was a little garbage disposal - and, because they skim along the bottom of the tank really quickly, they keep detritus from building up on the sand.

Decisions, decisions, huh! The pictus are probably a better fit in fairness...it's a head over heart thing though!!!
 
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fishorama

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Yeah, that entire head over heart thing, lol. It's a tough discision... but I'd be careful of what size pictus. Too small & they're Oscar food & it's possible death by choking on the cat's spines. I can't see them being long term clown loach tankmates...too busy & too big of mouths (depending on pictus species)...you'd need to choose only 1 bottom fish species I think.

Spotted pictus were the reason I wanted into this hobby...but I've never gotten around to keeping them after almost 40 years, lol, too many cool loaches! You'll need to research pictus species & Oscars, I don't know...
 
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