Abrassion/swelling on puffer...?

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Amphiprion

Contain the Excitement...
Feb 14, 2007
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Mobile, Alabama
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Andrew
I also wanted to correct a misstatement of mine above in that protein skimmers won't necessarily aggressively remove antibiotics. It depends on the actual drug and its amphipathicity. Some are even ionic and the likelihood of those being removed are negligible. Sorry about the lapse in chemistry, as I'm usually much more careful than that. Carbon is much more likely to remove them, though, as it targets many organic molecules in general.
 

mcsassy

professional fool
Jan 28, 2008
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^ I have no protein skimmer right now anyways, so it doesn't really matter either way.

My frogspawn seemed to get pretty irritated when I medicated the tank and started closing up. I'm going to be dosing it now probably after the moonlights come on, so it doesn't affect it as much. Will definitely be keeping progress here though.
 

mcsassy

professional fool
Jan 28, 2008
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This was posted by a member...what do you think of the statement and its content?

"Something to keep in mind with puffers is that being scaleless fish they have a higher systemic absorption rate of chemical from external sources through their skin than a fish with scales. That's why Melafix is the safer, although possibly slower option, IMHO. It's all natural and poses less risk to inverts, corals, and fish. Second thing is that external treatment is the best choice for skin issues for any fur less creature. When antibiotics are taken internally they are processed by the liver before they go out systemically, this is called first pass effect, and the systemic drug amount is actually decreased because of this. Another part that plays in to oral antibiotics is that once it is systemic, it's penetration rate varies by compound. What this means is that at the capillary bed, where antibiotics are moved to the tissues, there can be limited penetration in to the tissue itself inhibiting its ability to reach the skin and the organism causing the infection. I'm going to pull random numbers out of a hat here so please don't rely on these numbers but, say penicillin moves from the capillary bed to the tissues and it has a penetration rate of 0.01 mm and the tissue you are trying to reach is 0.015 mm, the effectiveness is going to be slight to nil. Another aspect of this is that as the antibiotic moves through the tissue it does disperse and dissipate, so that by the time it makes the skin it is again, possibly irrelevant."
 

Amphiprion

Contain the Excitement...
Feb 14, 2007
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Andrew
True, but all of the products mentioned are perfectly safe with puffers, I can assure you. I used all of these back when I worked at the LFS and never once did I have an issue with them. On the other hand, I also used melafix on several occasions. I never once saw a particularly favorable effect. I prefer to stick to tried and true antibiotics. Beyond that, those dispersion rates are unrealistic. It is, however, important to make sure the fish gets plenty of the antibiotic ingested either way so that this effect is lessened. While topical application is undoubtedly more effective (always is for external problems), I would honestly only go the topical route when absolutely necessary, as it is even more stressful to the fish. You also run the risk of opening the sites for further infection. More of a last resort than anything and I don't recommend it unless the infection is very severe. Again, though, treating in a bath in a QT is still the preferred method overall in terms of less handling, etc. Not to mention that kanamycin is more effective orally as opposed to in a bath, as more is absorbed overall. I don't really want to argue the point too much, however, so I'll let you decide instead of going back and forth.
 

mcsassy

professional fool
Jan 28, 2008
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True, but all of the products mentioned are perfectly safe with puffers, I can assure you. I used all of these back when I worked at the LFS and never once did I have an issue with them. On the other hand, I also used melafix on several occasions. I never once saw a particularly favorable effect. I prefer to stick to tried and true antibiotics. Beyond that, those dispersion rates are unrealistic. It is, however, important to make sure the fish gets plenty of the antibiotic ingested either way so that this effect is lessened. While topical application is undoubtedly more effective (always is for external problems), I would honestly only go the topical route when absolutely necessary, as it is even more stressful to the fish. You also run the risk of opening the sites for further infection. More of a last resort than anything and I don't recommend it unless the infection is very severe. Again, though, treating in a bath in a QT is still the preferred method overall in terms of less handling, etc. Not to mention that kanamycin is more effective orally as opposed to in a bath, as more is absorbed overall. I don't really want to argue the point too much, however, so I'll let you decide instead of going back and forth.
Haha, thank you. I'm not trying to argue or go back and forth...I'm just trying to collect all the knowledge I can through the situation and save my pet's life potentially. I'm going to continue the melafix marine for a few days and if I see absolutely no difference, I am going to order the kanaplex and focus and get that started right away. I just didn't want to do both at the same time as I don't want to dump too many things into the water column potentially at once. I have a feeling I am going to be needing to do a huge water change soon...my house smells like menthol.
 

mcsassy

professional fool
Jan 28, 2008
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I know what you mean. No worries :).

I hate the smell of Melaleuca also, lol.
Perhaps because it smells like Petno. Where the pet's don't go.

But seriously...it smells like friggin' petco in my house...it's crazy. The liquid itself smells like a steam room at the gym, then when it's in the tank it smells like I'm walking around the aquatic section at the store.
 

Pufferpunk

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Mar 22, 2002
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LOL, Amp. That's my pufferfish website. Sounds like you don't have much faith in natural remedies... ;)
 

Amphiprion

Contain the Excitement...
Feb 14, 2007
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Mobile, Alabama
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Andrew
I do, but I just haven't had much luck with melafix and I've used it a lot in the past (even when not by choice). I dosed it religiously, turned off skimmers, etc. and followed instructions. I just never saw it doing any noticeable good. I've used the freshwater version and it worked great, though. Maybe I've just had a lot of strokes of bad luck with it.
 

mcsassy

professional fool
Jan 28, 2008
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It's not doing anything at all except clouding my water. My puffer is getting sicker and starting to scratch...the infection is spreading more and he's starting to hide often.

Hope I have time to order the medicine and treat him before it's too late.
 
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