Added Some Supplemental Media to the QuietFlow 75 to Help with Bio Filtration During Cycle...PLEASE Advise

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the loach

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You honestly don't think the 110 PLUS a 400 GPH Aqueon for 75 gallon tanks is enough filtration for a mere two goldfish? Sure, we plan on adding like two more once the tank matures, but I've run a setup like this (with an Aqueon 55 and the AC 110) before on this same tank without any water clarity issues.
No, I meant you already have 2 filters, which have enough volume for 2 goldfish.

I'm really confused here, Loach, and don't know what to do; if you, or anyone else who has contributed to this thread, is consciously misleading me with conflicting recommendations and suggestions because you may think my queries are ridiculous at this point, and that it's humorous to do so, there's nothing I can do but say it's the sake of my fish's health that's at stake -- I just want them to remain healthy through this process, and I don't know what to do next or who to turn to. WHY can't ANYONE tell me why my test results aren't even MOVING? How can my water be THAT messed up?

What am I supposed to do moving forward if the tank NEVER cycles? Do I perform water changes? Why is the haze in the tank not really disappearing after a MONTH?
Nobody thinks your questions are ridiculous. This is a pretty serious forum but it's hard to say what is going on without being there. As long as the fish are acting fine and eating, there is no problem. If suddenly the ammonia goes up, or they don't act fine, do a large water change. If nitrite goes up, add the salt. Other than that cycling can take quite a while, and it is just a waiting game.
 

dudley

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I don't think anyone is messing with you that has responded in any of your topics. It can be difficult sometimes to troubleshoot a new tank set up or for that matter any questions regarding problems.

I do remember you saying that you had to clean some filter media because it was all gunked up which may mean that the fish are missing some of the food and it is getting caught in the filter. I would not expect needing to clean filter media on a tank that is only a month or so old.

It is possible that the ammonia reading you are seeing is benign as some people always seem to have a low reading in their tank. Consider buying a Seachem Ammonia Alert to place in your tank which shows dangerous level of ammonia.

What color is the haze you are seeing in your tank? It may be helpful to take a large sample in a clean clear glass if you can't tell in the tank. A whitish or gray color is usually a bacteria bloom where as greenish is usually algae related.
 
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the loach

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I do remember you saying that you had to clean some filter media because it was all gunked up which may mean that the fish are missing some of the food and it is getting caught in the filter. I would not expect needing to clean filter media on a tank that is only a month or so old.
That is a good point, could it even be in a dead spot of the filter? It's almost as if the bacteria are uncomfortable to settle, maybe turn one filter off 900 gallons p/h on a 60 gal tank might just be too much flow?
 

fishorama

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The black plastic balls were in some example pics you posted. I was trying to say those would not be as effective as ceramic media. With the vertical style filters (mine are Whispers) you need to try & have a similar density top to bottom so the water flows through rather than around the media. I had trouble trying to use carbon or ceramic small bits in the sleeves, they fell down to the bottom & I'm sure were veryless effective. I had better luck stacking the larger balls or cylinders. They stayed in place but it was a PITA if a swishing of the sleeve in tank water wasn't enough & I had to pour them out to really clean the sleeve part.

My newer Whispers have a thin foam sheet in a frame that could be used after the poly sleeve frame or before. Your filter has a curved design that may made the "after" doable but before might be better for yours.

I hope that helps & doesn't confuse you.

I think the 2 filters you have are enough.
 

fishorama

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Oh I see, more posts.

I don't remember, did you test your tap water for ammonia? Many city water cos. have 1ppm chloramines & even with dechlor will show as .50 on API tests until your beneficial bacteria takes care of it. While water changes are always good, if you have chloramines they'll show as ammonia...every time. Dee's idea of an ammonia alert isn't bad, I did 1 when I was raising juvie discus & was very worried about...everything.

I'm sorry if you've been over all this before, some of you threads go on too long for me to keep up on them all. You need to repeat info in each thread for us (me & others) to be up to speed. It may seem like we know you & your tank issues but, well, not as much as you might hope.

We all DO want to help you but everyone's problems are similar in some ways & different in others. Stability is not something I've used so I kind of quit paying attention...There's no need to feel put down or confronted by some of our advice styles or experiences. There is no 1 person that has all the answers you'd like to have. It helps when you have a new different problem or issue to start a new thread & briefly restate things for all of us to help you with a sudden new issue. I totally missed the cloudy water thing...but bacteria or algae bloom comes to my mind first. How long are your lights on? Algae can look green or white.
 
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Kaskade10729

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Jun 16, 2013
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No, I meant you already have 2 filters, which have enough volume for 2 goldfish.
Oh, okay; I either misread or misunderstood what you wrote upon first glance...

Nobody thinks your questions are ridiculous. This is a pretty serious forum but it's hard to say what is going on without being there. As long as the fish are acting fine and eating, there is no problem. If suddenly the ammonia goes up, or they don't act fine, do a large water change. If nitrite goes up, add the salt. Other than that cycling can take quite a while, and it is just a waiting game.
Thank you. It's just been INCREDIBLY frustrating.

But the thing is, I WANT to know what's going on -- I understand that if they are acting fine, eating, swimming and seemingly doing well (they're even GROWING during all this, if you can believe that), it can be assumed all is okay. But this is supposed to be the CYCLING phase, and I want to understand what is happening. If the ammonia never moves or the fish don't begin to act strange, WHEN do I begin my regular routine of large water changes weekly? How am I supposed to know WHEN this begins?

I did a 15-gallon or so change today, because my ammonia is STILL coming back in the tests somewhere in the 0.25 to 0.50 ppm range, and that seemed to make the water somewhat clearer; but isn't the tank supposed to be officially cycled when everything goes down to 0 ppms and/or nitrates spike a bit?

You mentioned that "cycling can take quite a while" -- but how do I know when it's done?

Thanks for your continued assistance.
 

Kaskade10729

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Jun 16, 2013
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I don't think anyone is messing with you that has responded in any of your topics. It can be difficult sometimes to troubleshoot a new tank set up or for that matter any questions regarding problems.
Thanks Dudley; it's just extremely difficult to make out someone's intentions when we're discussing things via an online forum (and I've been burned before by characters who were purposely trying to mislead me with certain suggestions because...well...they either thought it was funny or because they simply could...and this has happened on several sites dabbling in a variety of hobbies, not just aquaria).

I just wanted Loach and others to know that even if the intention was to poke fun at me and mislead with conflicting information, my primary concern was the fish...so I was hoping folks could just understand and appreciate that, whatever they thought of me personally. As it stands, I'm getting different input from the folks here and, for example, the Seachem rep, and I don't know what's right or wrong.

I do remember you saying that you had to clean some filter media because it was all gunked up which may mean that the fish are missing some of the food and it is getting caught in the filter. I would not expect needing to clean filter media on a tank that is only a month or so old.
Yes -- and this was WITH having a prefilter on the AquaClear 110.

I must have been overfeeding, or the fish were producing an abundance of waste -- but when I rinsed out the media in the AquaClear -- that is, the sponge, filter floss and bio rings -- in dechlorinated water, it was pretty disgusting. I was shocked myself to see what had been trapped in there. The Seachem rep told me this could have been contributing to the ammonia traces that continue to this day...

Anyway, I have since taken the prefilter off the 110 because it seemed like there was a bunch of solid waste floating around that wasn't getting sucked up by the filter's intake, obviously (because it was covered by the prefilter).

It is possible that the ammonia reading you are seeing is benign as some people always seem to have a low reading in their tank. Consider buying a Seachem Ammonia Alert to place in your tank which shows dangerous level of ammonia.
Yeah, I can't seem to kick this low level of ammonia, a month in -- it ALWAYS seems to read somewhere between 0.25 and 0.50 ppm, based on the API test kit chart, which equates to a light green color.
1595474372590.png

Do you see in the picture where the second color box in the ammonia column is a kind of really light green? Our test ALWAYS comes back as a color somewhere between that 0.25 and the 0.50 box below it...

Now, it is definitely a good thing that the ammonia isn't higher -- but I am concerned that this level NEVER went any higher during the cycling phase. Isn't it SUPPOSED to? It's almost like everything has stalled in the cycle, as the numbers just aren't moving. And I cannot explain why I have NO nitrites since almost the beginning (this test only changed ONCE during this month I'm set up, where it went into the very light purple color region, the 0.25 ppm reading).

What color is the haze you are seeing in your tank? It may be helpful to take a large sample in a clean clear glass if you can't tell in the tank. A whitish or gray color is usually a bacteria bloom where as greenish is usually algae related.
Indeed, I understand the differences between the haze colors; this is definitely not an algae bloom -- it's a gray-ish haze, but it's been going in and out in terms of intensity.

Now don't get me wrong -- the tank is NOT hazed over to the point that you can't see the fish, plants or decor like some setups experience. We actually never had a bloom that bad. It's just that the water went from crystal clear over the first couple of weeks to cloudy and hazy, and never really cleared up 100-percent since then.

Here's what the tank looked like the other night (we snapped a pic to send to Seachem); it doesn't look bad, at all, in it, but there's definitely a haze in there that keeps it from being 100-percent polished-looking:

1595474761226.png

Now THIS pic from the side shows more of what I'm talking about:

1595474803764.png
 

Kaskade10729

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Jun 16, 2013
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That is a good point, could it even be in a dead spot of the filter? It's almost as if the bacteria are uncomfortable to settle, maybe turn one filter off 900 gallons p/h on a 60 gal tank might just be too much flow?
What do you mean by "in a dead spot of the filter"? Before I took the prefilter off that AquaClear, the food and waste didn't seem to be getting sucked up all that well, which is why I removed it.

When you say "900 gallons per hour" is "too much flow," didn't you originally tell me that I'm not REALLY getting 900 GPH with that Aqueon I have as a "supplemental" filter? At any rate, I don't think the flow is the problem, as I leave the AquaClear's flow control all the way on the lowest setting. It still gives a nice ripple effect across the surface, but it's not on full blast...

Even still -- should this be an issue when bacteria can grow on everything in the tank, not just the filter media?
 

Kaskade10729

AC Members
Jun 16, 2013
309
2
18
The black plastic balls were in some example pics you posted. I was trying to say those would not be as effective as ceramic media. With the vertical style filters (mine are Whispers) you need to try & have a similar density top to bottom so the water flows through rather than around the media. I had trouble trying to use carbon or ceramic small bits in the sleeves, they fell down to the bottom & I'm sure were veryless effective. I had better luck stacking the larger balls or cylinders. They stayed in place but it was a PITA if a swishing of the sleeve in tank water wasn't enough & I had to pour them out to really clean the sleeve part.

My newer Whispers have a thin foam sheet in a frame that could be used after the poly sleeve frame or before. Your filter has a curved design that may made the "after" doable but before might be better for yours.

I hope that helps & doesn't confuse you.

I think the 2 filters you have are enough.
Thanks for the clarification; what I wanted to know, essentially, by starting this thread was whether it was okay for me to stagger the extra media I bought for the QuietFlow 75 the way I did -- that is, I stuffed a small foam block into that chamber above the intake area, and then placed a small bag of bio rings on top of that. Is it okay for that kind of media to sit there BEFORE the water goes over to the cartridges?
 

Kaskade10729

AC Members
Jun 16, 2013
309
2
18
I don't remember, did you test your tap water for ammonia? Many city water cos. have 1ppm chloramines & even with dechlor will show as .50 on API tests until your beneficial bacteria takes care of it. While water changes are always good, if you have chloramines they'll show as ammonia...every time. Dee's idea of an ammonia alert isn't bad, I did 1 when I was raising juvie discus & was very worried about...everything.
Yes, I did test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate -- while the pH was super-high (probably due to our ridiculously hard tap water here) the other parameters ALL read 0 ppm.

I'm sorry if you've been over all this before, some of you threads go on too long for me to keep up on them all. You need to repeat info in each thread for us (me & others) to be up to speed. It may seem like we know you & your tank issues but, well, not as much as you might hope.
Well, I apologize for my approach when writing in these forums -- I am a professional writer by profession, with a plethora of published work to my credit in magazines and other outlets, and it's just my style to explain as proficiently as possible what is going on. To be honest, I wish more forum dwellers -- not just here, but everywhere online -- would be as succinct and clear with their posts/responses as I am, because it's almost impossible to follow some people.

We all DO want to help you but everyone's problems are similar in some ways & different in others. Stability is not something I've used so I kind of quit paying attention...There's no need to feel put down or confronted by some of our advice styles or experiences. There is no 1 person that has all the answers you'd like to have. It helps when you have a new different problem or issue to start a new thread & briefly restate things for all of us to help you with a sudden new issue. I totally missed the cloudy water thing...but bacteria or algae bloom comes to my mind first. How long are your lights on? Algae can look green or white.
But see...why am I wrong if others are missing things I'm saying or, as you admitted to, "quit paying attention"? THAT'S why I feel put down or suspicious that the replies are intended to confuse me even more. To be honest, I don't even understand what my posting style has to do with not being able to help me in multiple threads; I only started this new one because I didn't want the previous one to veer away from the subject at hand in that one, which was cycling with Stability...

At any rate, with regard to your cloudy water inquiry -- this definitely doesn't have anything to do with my lights. They're cheap fluorescents that came in my tank package with the hoods, and they're only on when we feed the inhabitants or just want to watch them.

But this is the FIRST I'm hearing of the fact that algae can be both green OR white; I provided a picture of my tank in its current state above, if you wish to take a stab at analyzing the water...
 
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