Advantage of adding salt?

And you are adding pickling levels of salt to your water?

I disagree. The cons outweigh the pros. You are exacerbating an already unnatural situation, adding a chemical that is not present in the fishes' natural environment to any degree and witrh which they are ill-equipped to deal by evolution.
 
OrionGirl said:
My biggest concern regarding the ongoing use of salt in a FW aquarium is one of control. Very few people have the means of testing the salinity levels in their aquariums, and no way to take into account the concentrating effect of evaporation. This means there's a very real risk of salinity levels that slowly climb over time, and this can result in serious problems.

As for 'increased slime layer'--this isn't a great thing, either, IMO. If a fish is producing a thicker slime coat, it means the fish is being irritated, in this case by salt. A thick slime coat has some benefits, but comes with risks, including suffocation from too thick a slime coating, and the increased odds that any bacteria which does penetrate will be harder to deal with and more likely to kill the fish.

IMO, more frequent water changes are a better use of time and money than adding salt to a FW tank.

I can understand the concerns, but over the years I have not found that water changes have had any effect on fungal problems in tanks in my area, but I have found salt to be very effective. It may be that fungal problems are not as great in other parts of the world, but here in tropical Australia I have found that without salt in the tank I can guarentee losses from fungus. So when I do suggest salt I do try and qualify that I have found salt to be very effective in my situation and the pros certainly outweigh the cons - that's mostly as I haven't really come across the cons much yet.

The concentration levels are certainly an issue as my levels will drift down on occassion as I will forget to add salt during water changes for a while - until I either remember or find a fungal outbreak or something... Getting the concentration right again after that is a problem and usually involves bringing the levels up gradually by adding correct amounts with water changes... It certainly requires attention when dealing with evaporation and such, which isn't a problem for me, but I can see it being a problem in general with other people...

I actually find it amazing that there are parts of the world where you can set up a tank, cycle it, put in fish and then not have them sprout into white fluffy fungus without adding salt. I have not found it possible to do that here. I always tell people about salt in my area otherwise they are just continually dumping anti-fungal chemicals into their tank...

BTW, about the bacteria getting through the slime layer... I don't know. I don't see how that makes any difference what thickness the layer is. If it's a problem bacteria, then it would be a problem either way... I don't even know if salt does thicken the slime layer. i have heard this, but I have my doubts. With fungus, at least, it seems to have little to do with the slime layer.
 
Faramir said:
And you are adding pickling levels of salt to your water?

I disagree. The cons outweigh the pros. You are exacerbating an already unnatural situation, adding a chemical that is not present in the fishes' natural environment to any degree and witrh which they are ill-equipped to deal by evolution.
All fresh water bodies have some degree of dissolved salts from trace amounts to the dead sea. So actually it is natural. As for as concentrating the amount is concerned just top off the tank with fresh water before doing your water change.
Regarding the betta owner, I'm glad they're living longer, as they should, not being brackish water fish and all. ;)
 
All fresh water bodies have some degree of dissolved salts from trace amounts to the dead sea. So actually it is natural.

As does all tapwater, in trace amounts. those amounts are for the most part so small that it shouldn't be considered in the same argument as dumping one tablespoon per 5 gallons of salt in a tank. There is almost no water on the earth that doesn't contain trace amounts of salt, and 1 tblsp per 5 gallons is way way beyond trace amounts.

can understand the concerns, but over the years I have not found that water changes have had any effect on fungal problems in tanks in my area, but I have found salt to be very effective.

You might try chlorine ??? it whould reduce/ eliminate the bacteria and fungus and then can be easily removed unlike salt. Chlorine is one of several reasons why we don't have to worry about bacteria and fungus at dangerous levels from our taps. Secondly, healthy fish are naturally defensive against bacteria and fungus, these are actually almost always present in our tanks, and bacteria and fungus are limited by wealth of factors in our systems. It may be that the tap in your area delivers high levels of bacteria and fungi, but that does not mean you need to put them in your tank alive. What do you do with or for your drinking water?
Whether or not you use salt is your choice, but if bacteria and fungus are your true concern there are plenty of other ways to deal with them, and skip the salt.

BTW, about the bacteria getting through the slime layer... I don't know. I don't see how that makes any difference what thickness the layer is. If it's a problem bacteria, then it would be a problem either way... I don't even know if salt does thicken the slime layer. i have heard this, but I have my doubts. With fungus, at least, it seems to have little to do with the slime layer.

You make several valid points here.
If your fish are healthy, they should be able to defend themselves against bacteria and fungus, if they aren't healthy, the root problem should be found and worked with. no matter how much slime coat they have or shed, unhealthy fish are still succeptable to fungal and bacterial problems. On the contrary, healthy fish will heal wounds, without any sign of secondary infections.
I have also heard that it thickens slime layer, and at other times I have heard that it helps fish to shed slime layer more quickly. Either way, Fish produce and shed more slime layer as a defense against irritants or disease. So although There seems to be relatively little information on the effects of salt on slime layer, it would seem at face value that any chemical that increases slime coat and shedding thereof would most likely be an irritant. A fish that is not irritated or under attack would not elicit an immune response. In a case of a damaged, or sick fish, there may be some benifits, but we are not discussing use for treatment, we are discussing long term use on healthy fish. The salt makers and sellers promote it as therapeutic, but most of the research I have done (I've been chasing this idea all week for other purposes) has indicated otherwise so far. Let's also remember that the makers of stress coat claim that aloe increases slime coat as well, and it really does, because it irritates the fish at the elevated dosage reccomended for this purpose.
I would bet you could get the same response with a whole gambit of irritating chemicals.
I have kept fish in six different versions of city water, and two different versions of untreated well water over the years. I do not and have never used salt in my tanks (except for short term treatment of a problem) and the only time I have ever seen a bacterial of fungal infection on my fish was one occasion when I put my fish through extreme nitrite stress. I have had many injured fish over the years which healed up fine on their own.

dave
 
Go easy on the salt

Many posters who seem not in favour of adding salt unless there is a legitimate treatment for illness talk about salilinity levels( and others who endorse it do too) far exceeding "freshwater acceptable" levels All my tanks get some salt but this is impart because I have cichlids, and one pond comet. My water is increadably soft, and I want to increase the mineral hardness. My point is there is hardly a negative with adding literally a pinch of salt to five gallons for my south american planted tank, and certainly a benefit to 1/4 tsp salt per 21/2 gallon Tanganyikan tank.
 
daveedka said:
As does all tapwater, in trace amounts. those amounts are for the most pa
You might try chlorine ??? it whould reduce/ eliminate the bacteria and fungus and then can be easily removed unlike salt. Chlorine is one of several reasons why we don't have to worry about bacteria and fungus at dangerous levels from our taps. Secondly, healthy fish are naturally defensive against bacteria and fungus, these are actually almost always present in our tanks, and bacteria and fungus are limited by wealth of factors in our systems. It may be that the tap in your area delivers high levels of bacteria and fungi, but that does not mean you need to put them in your tank alive. What do you do with or for your drinking water?
Whether or not you use salt is your choice, but if bacteria and fungus are your true concern there are plenty of other ways to deal with them, and skip the salt.

As this is a rural area in Australia we are often dealing with untreated water from a variety of sources. That includes drinking water, tho at the moment the water is either well water or rainwater at our place in particular. It has also been creek or dam water in the past, and it's an area where such sorts of untreated water supplies are very common. That probably has a lot to do with it. I must admit I haven't really considered using chlorine to sterilize water as you tend to get the feeling that chlorine is something to avoid when dealing with an aquarium, but sure you could chlorinate the water then let it age. I don't know if the various fungus that appears in the tanks can get there from airborne spores, but I suppose it's worth a test.

I suppose the trouble is I haven't really seen any problems associated with having salt in the tank over the years, only seen the positive side - the result is that fish live longer with salt in the tank so I use salt. Usually with salt the lives are normal fish lifespan, so I haven't had any reason to change. Perhaps the lives would be 'better' with no salt and some other method of preventing fungal infection, but I don't exactly know how to define 'better' or test for it in any quantitive way. So far I've just gone by death rate and lifespan, which seem about the same here with salt and elsewhere without. I dare say a treated, chlorinated water supply is a big advantage in that area.

I've always been one to go for stability in a tank, so considered that changing slat levels from time to time would have been worse than keeping them constant. Not real reason for that except we tend to strive for stability when dealing with the aquarium... SOme good thoughts anyway...
 
Faramir said:
And you are adding pickling levels of salt to your water?

I disagree. The cons outweigh the pros. You are exacerbating an already unnatural situation, adding a chemical that is not present in the fishes' natural environment to any degree and witrh which they are ill-equipped to deal by evolution.

No, I dont think too many of us are pickling our tanks. That would be going to an extreme to kill off all pathogens, and would also then kill everything else. I'm not trying to pickle my water -nothing to my knowlege survives in pickled water because the salt concentration is so high. No, i simply use it to keep parasites, fungi and bacteria under control and IME it does a fine job.

I have never seen any real cons to using salt, and any fish that are so ill-equipped to deal with such low levels of salt would not survive for long in any body of water, because, as many have said, salt content exists in ALL water.

victimizati0n said:
there are NO advantages unless your fish are sick.
salt is really hard on fish - especially saltwater fish.

What? Salt is hard on saltwater fish? Then they should get out of the saltwater! I'm hoping this was a typo...
here's one advantage: Ick can't survive in it. As soon as it enters the free swimming state it's good as gone...(and i know that's kind of the fish being sick but I mean ick trying to survive at all.)
right? o.O


daveedka said:
You might try chlorine ??? it whould reduce/ eliminate the bacteria and fungus and then can be easily removed unlike salt. Chlorine is one of several reasons why we don't have to worry about bacteria and fungus at dangerous levels from our taps.

Though that works, it's not very wise to pour some of that into a fish tank. (I know what you're talking about though -treating the water not yet put in). But this is why many use salt.

Overall, the person asking the question should learn from his own experience. Everyone has a different idea on it, and we can go on arguing for a long time...and I'm sure I'll get plenty of jolly replies from this.
Merry christmas!
 
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qtaquaman said:
Regarding the betta owner, I'm glad they're living longer, as they should, not being brackish water fish and all. ;)

Ummm, that is kind of the point. They are freshwater fish and that is what people are talkign about adding salt to. :rolleyes:

Anyways adding salt to cichlid tanks is a very common thing to do. But that is cichlid or buffering salt that should be added. NaCl does nothing to the hardness of water. It adds Na and Cl to your water.

I think there seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere over what salt people are adding. Adding a buffering salt to affect pH and TDS is one thing. That is adjusting water chemistry and if you wish to do that cool.

Adding NaCl doesn't do very much for TDS and does nothing for hardnes or pH.
 
Well, it does the same for TDS as any other salt does. It's a dissolved solid.

But it has no effect on hardness, alkilinity or pH.

I think my point about pickling levels of salt has been missed - perhaps the stereotype that Americans don't get irony has a background of truth ;) - what I meant was that, yes, pickling does make the environment hostile to bacteria, but since you are not going to pickle the fish, the analogy to pickling is irrelevant, because you are not creating the same environment.
 
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