Agricultural fair = torture for fish

[SubRosa]

There are many laws for regulating behavior that are necessary and desirable. Fines for littering, mandatory recycling. I'm sure these impinge on individual liberties to junk up the planet and fritter away resources, but most of us agree that it is worth it!

There are plenty of reptiles and mammals that require a permit for captive care, not such a stretch to think it could/should be made applicable for certain fish.

Laws on permits for animals vary from state to state, which is how it should be. I happen to live in what I consider to be a good state in that regard, PA. Equating the situation in this country with the one in GB is apples and oranges because of the way our govts are structured. But I assume that when people call for a ban in this country that they are talking about a federal ban, which is totally beyond the authority of the feds.

 

[SubRosa]

Regarding the "rancor" comment it's very simple. Although you are arguing an emotional issue, as long as you understand that emotion has no place in a chain of logic and make your points in such a manner we will never have a problem with that!

 

[platytudes]

Back to the topic at hand...

Micha, a petition sounds like the first step, if you are so inclined. Even if you just had however many hundreds of signatures, you could present them to the Cooperative Extension office, to show that others dislike/disagree with this practice.

Don't expect everyone or even most folks to give you the time of day, but I bet plenty of parents, staff, and citizens would support you. There are lots of local petitions about this very subject floating around the web.

You could contact your local branch of the SPCA and see if they have any ideas as to how to proceed, or if they could post a poster with a website address or some such. Plenty of sites out there with templates for making petitions - http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html
That seems to be a popular one, if you are so inclined to create an online petition.

Of course, you may not want to go through all this trouble - but those are just some ideas, if you want to try. Hopefully next year things might be different.

 

[sschind]

Before I stopped selling feeder fish this is how I handled the schools that wanted the goldfish toss (ping pong ball toss actually) game. I told them they could set up a 10 gallon tank with a filter and put a couple of goldfish in it to show what the prize would be. Then I allowed them to print up coupons stating that 1 coupon could be redeemed for 1 goldfish at my store. They loved the idea since they didn't have to bag up live fish or pick up bags of dead fish after the event. Kids loved the idea because they still won a fish (they just had to pick it up at a later date) and parents especially loved the idea because the vast majority of kids totally forgot they had won a fish by the next morning. I had them put a 1 or 2 week expiration on the redemption just in case the kid remembered after a few days and still wanted the fish. I did this for about 7 years and although the organizers told me they gave out on average about 50-75 coupons for each event I think the most ever redeemed for any 1 event was something like 7. The organizers made their money, the parents didn't have to take care of a fish they really didn't want and in some cases I even made a bit of money.

I used to have fair people call me to order anywhere from 300 - 1000 goldfish. Since I knew it was fair time I never had feeders in stock (even if I did I didn't if you know what I mean.)

Now I don't sell feeders so it has become a moot point.

 

[platytudes]

I love your idea!

This is just the kind of "creative alternative" I was referring to.

 

[dundadundun]

i'm loving mr. schindlers list!

step 1: don't just give out fish to torture
step 2: keep the ones you've got properly
step 3: refer to step one... and come see me when you're interested

love it!

oh, and sorry... the name was just too easy... pun intended. :hitting:

 

[H2Ogal]

Before I stopped selling feeder fish this is how I handled the schools that wanted the goldfish toss (ping pong ball toss actually) game. I told them they could set up a 10 gallon tank with a filter and put a couple of goldfish in it to show what the prize would be. Then I allowed them to print up coupons stating that 1 coupon could be redeemed for 1 goldfish at my store. They loved the idea since they didn't have to bag up live fish or pick up bags of dead fish after the event. Kids loved the idea because they still won a fish (they just had to pick it up at a later date) and parents especially loved the idea because the vast majority of kids totally forgot they had won a fish by the next morning. I had them put a 1 or 2 week expiration on the redemption just in case the kid remembered after a few days and still wanted the fish. I did this for about 7 years and although the organizers told me they gave out on average about 50-75 coupons for each event I think the most ever redeemed for any 1 event was something like 7. The organizers made their money, the parents didn't have to take care of a fish they really didn't want and in some cases I even made a bit of money.

I used to have fair people call me to order anywhere from 300 - 1000 goldfish. Since I knew it was fair time I never had feeders in stock (even if I did I didn't if you know what I mean.)

Now I don't sell feeders so it has become a moot point.

An excellent win-win solution!

I am curious: For the few who redeemed their coupons, did you give them a feeder goldfish or one from your "real" stock of goldfish for sale as pets? And do you remember if you were able to get them started with at least a 10g? Not trying at all to put you on the spot about the end results. (You certainly saved many a feeder from death in a bag/bowl.) I'm just wondering if those who remembered they'd won a fish might actually have turned out to have a real interest in keeping fish. Would be nice to think that a few of them were aquarists-in-training, so to speak.

 

[Piranha86]

Try to keep a fish from the genus Acestorynchus without feeding it smaller live fish and let us all know how it turns out for the fish. It turns my stomach to see people try to use the govt. to impose their feelings on others. If the Goldfish game at the fair offends you, walk away.

I agree. People always have to make a big deal about their opinion to prove that they are 'right'. Well, I might think that I'm right, but someone else who thinks that they're right doesn't think that I'm right. And I don't think that they're right.

While not ideal, I think Bettas would be a better alternative for the fair games. Bettas can at least live in a bowl if properly cared for.

That's the problem... While a betta can somewhat happily live in 1-2 gallons of water, it needs some other stuff. I have my doubts as to how many people at a carnival are going to buy and maintain live plants, heaters, and proper food for a betta. Also, bettas are pretty expensive, at least compared to a feeder goldfish. The only place where bettas are farmed to the equivalent as feeder goldfish is probably Thailand. And it's not cheap to ship how ever many fish over to the States.

 

[sschind]

Deborah- No problem. The fish they got were in fact feeders but there is no reason why healthy feeder fish (I know that seems to be an oxymoron) can not be kept and maintained for a long time if done properly. I don't sell bowls so most of the people who were just looking to get the fish on the cheap were disappointed. I did sell a couple of 10 gallon tank setups but it seems that most people already had the setups or at least claimed they did. I'm sure that some of those were simply fish bowls and I am sure that most of the fish that were redeemed lived fairly short lives but at least I had the opportunity to tell the people where they were going wrong. As far as fish keepers in training I can only recall one specific customer who has been coming to me for about 7 years now, she is 12 or 13 years old and has three tanks and her first one was a 10 gallon setup her dad bought for her for her fair goldfish.

Done- Its been a while but it still pops up every now and then. I'm just glad it was good movie.

 

[Jannika]

The problem with it being an ethical issue, which indeed it is, is that invariably some will want to impose their ethics on others.

Indeed. Some people believe that keeping fish in an aquarium of any size is cruel and should be outlawed. Where does it end? The answer is education. It may be a slower process, but always preferable to legislation.