Air Gulping? - Please Help

IMO you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and consider what you are doing.

Your lfs has in all probability sold you some snake oil, has not given you any good advice or direction that I can see. Your fish are clearly reacting to the water quality. OD on the thiosulphate, who knows what the bacteria glop is, they (your fish) are telling you to change the water and stop throwing stuff, you have no idea about, in randomly.

IME Dip strip tests are not accurate, they will only get you in the ballpark do not depend on them for major decisions.

You need to search and do a little reading on nitrifing Bacteria and learn what that is all about.

The numbers you posted are not perfect but they are not a disaster either.
Keep doing the water chances and let the tank finish cycling.

Use Prime for your water conditioner (follow the directions) end of worries there.

Here it is... Water Change 80% - Using the Correct amount of Prime - add a little salt if you want - leave it alone

Check for Ammonia and Nitrites in 24 hours if they are a little high do it over again.

Jay
 
Crisis Averted?? (For the moment at least...)

I started on a water change after my last post, prior to some of these other posts coming in.. For the *moment* (past hour?) things seem to be better.. The fish are swimming - they all actually ATE!! - and only one has gone back to the top for a 'gulp', but then started swimming again..

So thanks to all for the quick tips and advice... kind of scary to think the lfs guy told us to just let it sit and ride it out.. 'may lose a few fish.. but oh well'.. sheesh!!!

A few of them DO look like they are "itching"... they've done the 'brush against the rock' thing - quick swipes, like they are scratching something.. maybe because their gills are still bothering them??? I don't see any white spots or dots on them...

To answer some other questions - I actually did ask for Prime and / or Amquel when I went to the lfs the other day - but was told that instead, for our chloramines - to use the Tamsco.. It does say "Instant Chlorine & Chloramine remover" on it..

I also saw those instructions when I first got it - about 1 DROP per gallon, but the lfs put their own sticker over the bottle labeling that says add 1 teaspoon per gallon - sooooooooo - go figure THAT one out!! their own testing?? i dunno...

We'll go back tonight and look for the Prime - i don't think they carry it - and haven't seen it at any of the other local (petsmart) stores.. but i'll keep looking...

oh - and yes, i have stopped using the nutrafin or topfin "Aquasafe" - the other conditioner..

I DO still have some concerns / questions on putting water BACk into the tank.. how are you folks doing it?? Do you use Pythons or similar devices that go right from the sink to the tank?? Or are you going bucket by bucket??

This last change we played it all reaaaal safe and went bucket by bucket (~ 4 buckets)... wish we could use the Python to go straight from the synch, but not sure we can w/ this or ANY conditioner..

I guess what I'm asking is - DOES the water have to be 'conditioned' first in a bucket before adding to the tank, or can the conditioning take place "in the tank" by adding Prime and then adding the new tap water??

Roan: Just tested pH - right about 7.8.. which is about where it usually is (we do have coral (forget it's technical name) below our gravel - maybe that's helping to buffer???

Jay - thanks I will follow your advice for the next few changes - hopefully we can find some Prime!!

thanks!
 
Here's a link covering Chlorine and Chloramines. The short version:
EPA Guidelines set a maximum allowed level of Chlorine of 4ppm. Most water supplies target 2-4 ppm Chlorine. Note that 4ppm of Chlorine is actually 5.8ppm Chloramine. (The Chlorine is 69% of the chloramine molecule, ammonia is the other 31%)
Click to expand...
.

Anything that you can find that does both chloramines and ammonia will do. Prime, Amquel, there are several others. If it doesn't mention ammonia its not sufficient (I didn't realize until today that there were dechlorinators that don't also handle the ammonia).

These work right away. You can just add them in and refill with the Python. Much easier.

I don't know what to make of the Tamsco stuff. I'd use the Nutrafin for the time being: its basically the same stuff and your sure of the dosage (if you check the label it probably says sodium thiosulfate as well).
 
Nod carpguy and that's why I push Prime or Aquel on people -- because they are the ones I *know* will handle the ammonia released when the chloramine is unbonded. There are far too many others that do not give complete information on their labels. And I'm just not comfortable with that or their ability to keep my or anyone else's fish safe.

One of the best sites I've ever found for that type of information is Kordon's site, the people who make Amquel. They do not futz around and tell it to you straight up -- positive or negative -- about their products. I especially love their Product Data sheets.

http://www.novalek.com/kordon.htm

Roan
 
UTTER CONFUSION!!

We left for the lfs to look for some Prime.. all was well w/ the fish when we left - back to normal it seemed...

We got their LAST bottle of Prime.. (small red label bottle - made by Seachem?? hope this is this right stuff)...

Anyway - we get back home and EVERY FISH is now doing the 'horizontal surface gulp'.. before we did today's change it was only two - and they stopped after the change.. what happened??

Should we do another water change (second one today)?? Or just add in the Prime and see what happens??

REALLY makes me suspicious of the Tamsco stuff now... I dunno..

So change again - or just Prime it and wait??

Thanks again for everyone's help on this..
 
Just did a water test... Ammonia shows really low - .6 on the color chart - barely yellow.. .6 doesn't even show up on their chart to measure NH3.. it starts at the next shade up - 1.2.. and this wasn't really even close to that..

and Nitrite was .1 again - barely pink...


Now - I didn't wanna mention this, for fear of being laughed off the forum.. but.. the guy talked me into buying a $10 air pump and a small areator.. he was saying that it sounded to him like my fish weren't getting enough oxygen in the water.. when I got home, seeing them all at the top, i figured it couldn't hurt to put it in...

Well - now 30 mins after adding the aireator, NONE of the fish are at the top (??!!?) Looks like they are all swimming normally again.. :P

Could they really have been deprived of oxygen?? Is it jsut coincidence?? I thought all you needed was the HOB filter - a lil displacement at the top of the water.. maybe I didnt' have enough???

Definitely Straaaaaaaaaaaaange..

Still wondering if I should pour in some Prime or do a change...

thanks :help:
 
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1. Change the water
2. Add the Prime
3. Get a test tube kit, perferably the AP Master Test kit
4. Whenever the ammonia gets above .25, do a waterchange
5. Whenever the nitrites get above .25, do a waterchange
6. Use the air pump if it makes you feel better. Nitrite will bind the cells in the blood that carry oxygen, ergo, it's entirely possible for fish to suffocate. THAT'S why they are gasping at the surface. The air pump is a short-term help and not the solution.
7. Stop listening to that LFS.
8. Smile and tell yourself "it's just a hobby" or you will go nuts.

Roan
 
Thanks Roan (and everyone)...

We did another change today (both ammonia and nitrite had risen slightly)... added the Prime..

They all seem to be doing much better today - even w/ the higher levels before the change.. :)

Does Prime tend to throw off the results of the nitrite and ammonia tests? just curious..

We have a "Mini Master Test Kit" from Hagen, plus an additional Hagen Ammonia kit that uses Salicylate method...
 
I've been following this thread and you have been getting some great information.

I don't think prime will influence the nitrite reading on your test kit.but, depending on the kit, since prime essentially removes the chlorine and turns the ammonia into ammonium..which can give a positive reading for ammonia.some call it a false positive)

glad to see your fish are doing better.
 
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