Are discus more difficult to raise ?

[Star_Rider]

Why are Discus always suggested to the experienced fish keeper if there not so hard to keep if you practice good fish keeping habits like wookly water changes? I always thought they were hard to keep due to them liking soft acidic water and like me I got hard water alkaline water.
I been reading that PH is really a big deal but yet it gets mention that SA/CA cichlids shouldnt be with africans cuz they like different water parameters why is that? I dont plan on mixing them just puzzles me. I know some people complain bout GBR's cuz they like specific water parameters but others say it doesnt matter.
Just kinda confusing... So does PH really matter or not?

Usually an experienced fish keeper has a good established routine and is willing to make the effort to maintain the tank. I personally try for 2 water changes per week for all my tanks.
I did daily water changes when raising juvenile Discus and Angels.(pretty normal IMO)

pH (IMO) is a great barometer for fish keepers but is a bit over rated in terms of importance.
I actually do not recommend keeping SA with Africans ..not becuase of water differences but more related to their aggressiveness.
there are African cichlids that live in soft water as well as New world Cichlids that live in hard water.

there are lots of fish keepers that raise and breed Rams, Angels and Discus in water that is out of the 'norm' for these species.( high pH)

 

[pinkertd]

The domestic and imported discus today are very different than what was available 20 years ago. Some of the things you read about discus keeping are based on back then. The only discus you would find were wild caught in the LFS and treated like any other run of the mill fish. I bought some, they died. I bought some more, they died too. I gave up and bought severums cause they were somewhat similar in appearance. Today the domestic and imported discus are being raised in ph ranging on average from 7.0 to 8.0, most around 7.6. These farm raised, breeder raised, hobbyist raised dicus can tolerate a wide range of ph from 6.5 to 8.0 and not bat an eyelash. RO used to be standard fare for raising discus, trying to duplicate what their wild relatives lived in. But it's all not really necessary. I have hard alkaline water with a ph of 7.6-7.8 in which they spawn and I get wrigglers. Lots of what I had read, which again was outdated, led me to believe in my water the eggs would never hatch. Not true, so I was delighted when I got my first wigglers easy as pie.

Discus taken from the wild and imported to the US have far more acclimation issues and stricter water requirements and need a lot more TLC. But that makes sense doesn't it....for any fish plucked out of the wild?

They are only recommended for the experienced fishkeeper because they are expensive fish. I've bought young 3-4" fish for $150 that came with papers! LOL! You'd be very surprised at how little some people really know about the proper keeping of a tank,it's cycling, and it's parameters, what causes a mini-cycle, the relationship to really clean tanks and water and the health of the fish and really doing the proper maintenance. But they consider themselves experienced and they don't admit their maintenance is substandard. The time to learn about a mini-cycle is not when you have a tank full of young discus. They are less forgiving of tank mess-ups than a lot of other fish. And it's a big investment to just think you know what you're doing. I've killed my share of discus in the beginning because of things I didn't know that I should have.

 

[GEV83]

Oh ok I got ya. My parents once owned a powder blue discus but it didnt last long they never learned how to properly maintain fish and until recently I didnt properly maintain mine either mainly due to lazyness. But anyways my parents Powder blue discus soon turned black then died in like 2 weeks. They never bought another one. I have been cleaning my tanks like I should and my fish seem to be very happy and show some nice colors amazing at the different color hues my fish could show off.

I have never messed with discus cuz I always thought they were only for the most experienced of aquatist which I am not. I have not had to deal with mini-cycles thank goodness which I should research more into before I do wind up in one and find myself lost. I know alot bout fish but I wouldnt even consider myself experienced even though ive had fish since I was 3yrs old I still feel like a noob sometimes. I think when I get more money and have more experience and confidence ill try some discus now the one Ill worry bout is trying some Altum Angelfish. I dont see anybody who carrys any real domestic stock there almost always wild caught.

 

[PopPopsfish]

The domestic and imported discus today are very different than what was available 20 years ago. Some of the things you read about discus keeping are based on back then. The only discus you would find were wild caught in the LFS and treated like any other run of the mill fish. I bought some, they died. I bought some more, they died too. I gave up and bought severums cause they were somewhat similar in appearance. Today the domestic and imported discus are being raised in ph ranging on average from 7.0 to 8.0, most around 7.6. These farm raised, breeder raised, hobbyist raised dicus can tolerate a wide range of ph from 6.5 to 8.0 and not bat an eyelash. RO used to be standard fare for raising discus, trying to duplicate what their wild relatives lived in. But it's all not really necessary. I have hard alkaline water with a ph of 7.6-7.8 in which they spawn and I get wrigglers. Lots of what I had read, which again was outdated, led me to believe in my water the eggs would never hatch. Not true, so I was delighted when I got my first wigglers easy as pie. Deb, Have you ever raised your fry?

Discus taken from the wild and imported to the US have far more acclimation issues and stricter water requirements and need a lot more TLC. But that makes sense doesn't it....for any fish plucked out of the wild? Yes , you are correct . We just received a shipment of Wilds ( four different wild strains all from the same area . Discus tend to ship much better that Altum Angels. Both need to be kept in tanks that have similar parameters as in the wild. We QT for up to 6 weeks and deworme etc. we find that the hardest part of keeping both Wild Discus & Wild Angels is Maintenance and getting them to eat.

They are only recommended for the experienced fishkeeper because they are expensive fish. I've bought young 3-4" fish for $150 that came with papers! LOL! You'd be very surprised at how little some people really know about the proper keeping of a tank,it's cycling, and it's parameters, what causes a mini-cycle, the relationship to really clean tanks and water and the health of the fish and really doing the proper maintenance. But they consider themselves experienced and they don't admit their maintenance is substandard. The time to learn about a mini-cycle is not when you have a tank full of young discus. They are less forgiving of tank mess-ups than a lot of other fish. And it's a big investment to just think you know what you're doing. I've killed my share of discus in the beginning because of things I didn't know that I should have.

I will say that some Wilds may require more care.

more 'Keep a watchful eye out'

Until they are properly acclimated.

:iagree:

My Point here is the Discus are NOT much different in their needs compared to other fishes like angels.

Both species are genetically similar to each other and the care of both is the same .

there is no real trick to it.
some research and work will yield successful Discus and Angel tanks.

my advice to inexperienced hobbiest.

Don't be afraid to keep Discus and Angels but be prepared to the commitment required for successful fish keeping.

We believe that the roomers of Discus being soo hard to keep comes from years ago as Deb stated .

 

[GEV83]

Yeah I got what Debbi was saying just makes me wonder why that info is still being passed on. I know old info still floats around out there on the net which is missleading but there is no info to actually mention how much easier it is to maintain and raise healthy Discus as long as there not Wild Caught. Good info either way Pop.

 

[pinkertd]

Pops, I have never had the desire to raise discus fry. While I continually look for a new challenge to learn about and raise up another type of freshwater fish that has been known to have some degree of difficulty and/or not commonly bred, discus just doesn't fit that bill for me. I just enjoy keeping the discus and my success was to be able to go from trying to keep wild, parasite ridden, sick discus of 20 years ago to having healthy happy big discus faces begging for me to give them their next meal . All my tanks present some challenges or require higher maintenance than my discus tank. I've grown out the discus strains/colors that I always wanted, and that is my easiest tank to keep. My no stress tank. While i do miss the extra spunk of juvie discus, I need at least one no stress tank!! LOL!

 

[Star_Rider]

Keep in mind too, many discus enthusiasts are trying for show quality fish.
Only a low % of the brood actually are 'show' quality.
These Enthusiasts will keep very high standards as the Juveniles grow out. they will then select the best from the stock.

These fish will generally only hit a select market. these are the prime fish. the other fish are rated then distributed.

what we hear most often is the schedule to have the best growth.
Daily water changes up 100% feeding the fish 6-8 even 10 times per day.
remember the young discus will have the fastest growth rate.

this slows down with age.

this will result in the prime fish we see from these fish keepers.

but you can successfully raise healthy, albeit not show quality, discus.

(BTW the same can be applied to most other fish)

lets keep in mind.. I would not call the techniques hammered by some enthusiast as 'myths' it does work for it's intended purpose.


I do remember, just a few years ago it was taboo to raise discus with angels.

HI POP

 

[cris gaston]

Hi. Angels and discus are very similar to each other being both cichlids. The only BIG difference is when you raise the new born fry artificially away from the parents. Discus fry first food is the mucous excreted from the body of the parents. Without the parents, you need to feed them with special formula applied in a special manner.

 

[Star_Rider]

very true:thm:

 

[gustavo85]

Hmmm, interesting. Quick question. I love discus, they are my favorite fish but have never tried them because I've been afraid to. I've been keeping fish for around 10 years now. In those 10 years I've raised a few angels (including a black angel which are said to be more delicate) from dime or nickel size to adults with food just once a day and PWC of once every one or two weeks. Would I be able to raise discus with feedings once a day and PWC of ~60% once every week or 2 weeks? Because with what I've heard and read...it's not possible, BUT I've done it with angels