Argh... filter ?s...

[gatotsu77]

I have been pondering this for a good while now, and I wonder if anyone else might agree with me, or have a good argument to convince me that I'm wrong. I have a rena xp3 and an emperor 400 on my 55g tank. I have 3 discus, 4 harlequin rasboras, a golden killie, a single cardinal tetra, (getting a dozen when the lfs gets them in) and a bamboo shrimp. I've wanted to switch out the emperor 400 for a secondary xp3, but I've never actually decided to do it because of how expensive the xp3 is. I love how quiet it is, and now that I have the spray bar facing the glass, the water current is very mild on that side of the tank. The emperor 400 is another story. The impeller is loud, the water cascades into the tank and is not the quietest thing, (even with the water at the correct height) and the current in front of the filter is kinda hefty... if I ever want to do co2, I'd lose most of it because of this filter. Now, I know surface agitation is important for gas exchange. That's why I got the emperor 400 in the first place. I pose this to any of you folks with discus and canister filters... do you have your spray bar aimed into the tank or at the back glass, and do you just do canister or do you have a combo like I do? Will the decreased surface agitation of 2 canisters aimed at the glass be a bad thing for my fish? Big al's has them for $90, and free shipping within the next 12 hours. (not sure when that offer started, but it ends in 12 hours) Let me know what you think? This isn't JUST aimed at discus owners either, anyone with plants, or honestly, any opinions at all will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[davexstumpe]

i've got an emperor 400 on my tank with discus, and the current, althouigh it seems to be a semi-rough right near the filter, never seems to bother them. I do hear what you're saying with the noise though. i also have a fluval on the tank, and the spray bar is facing into the water. Never any problems.

Dont know if this helps.

 

[pinkertd]

Would it be better to keep running what you have until you can afford a larger (larger than the XP3) canister filter so that you only have to run one filter with one spray bar? You would then have a spare XP3 for a QT tank or a 29G breeder tank or something in the future. Just seems like a lot for a 55 gallon tank. I only run two Emperor 280's on my 72G discus tank. One is a little stronger outflow than the other so I have that one on the far left side of the tank. I can slow the intake on that one. Neither of my filters are noisy eiher with the impellers or the outflow. I keep my tank filled up past the filter outflow and still have enough surface agitation without botherng the plants or fish. I also keep a small aquaclear on the tank, I think it's a 30, but that's just in case I need to set up a hospital or a QT tank and that one produces more turbulence than both of the emperors. I know a lot of people think you can never have too much filtration, but you can have too many filters than necessary. When established, doesn't your biological filter increase and decrease to match your bioload? And that is why if you add a few extra fish you may see a bit of an ammonia spike until the biofilter increases to match the increased load? And if you remove some fish and the ammonia feeding the biofilter is reduced, some of the biofilter bacteria will die off? I just don't see why you'd want to move 700 gph of water on a 55 gallon tank? Discus tanks I've seen at breeders have very little visible water movement.

 

[gatotsu77]

That's an interesting take on it... though I already have 750 gph. It actually started as a community tank. I only just took the plunge into discus. (and I'm LOVING them! ) I wish I could set up a hospital tank... but my folks won't let me. (basically, as long as I'm still living at home, I won't be able to have anything more than my 55g tank) I suppose it was mostly for the sake of being able to do CO2 later on, but I'm not sure if I'm going to venture into that or not. When I get my new light I'll be able to better gauge my needs. Thank you for your opinions.

 

[gatotsu77]

Come to think of it... an eheim 2213 is only $70, and is relatively gentle at 116gph. I think its more convenience than anything else at the moment, but I really would like the option to do CO2 later down the road... and I've read practically everywhere that HOB's are bad for doing CO2, as the excess surface agitation expels most of the CO2 from the tank.

 

[pinkertd]

Have you done CO2 and planted tank before? If not, IMO you'd be taking on a lot of new stuff to balance. Maybe you should just concentrate on keeping the discus growing and happy for a while. I don't think you ever told us how big your discus are, but if they are still juvies, with the frequent feedings you should do, it is hard for a beginner to balance new young discus/frequent feedings/planted tank.

 

[gatotsu77]

Have you done CO2 and planted tank before? If not, IMO you'd be taking on a lot of new stuff to balance. Maybe you should just concentrate on keeping the discus growing and happy for a while. I don't think you ever told us how big your discus are, but if they are still juvies, with the frequent feedings you should do, it is hard for a beginner to balance new young discus/frequent feedings/planted tank.

Haha, I wasn't trying to imply that I was going to jump to CO2 just yet, if ever really... I don't want to risk killing off my tank for the sake of trying to grow some plants. The discus are 3-3.5" body length each, the smallest being the brilliant turq. (which seems to be getting pushed around a bit by the pigeon blood... I know that discus form pecking orders, but the pigeon blood is scaring off the brilliant turq at feeding time... I worry that he's not getting enough to eat. (whereas the pigeon blood and the red discus, which we've yet to identify, are getting a LOT to eat)

 

[pinkertd]

You are seeing first hand why we, the people who actually have discus, advise others to keep more than 3 discus. 3 is a bad number aggression-wise. It is so easy for one to get constantly picked on when there's not many to choose from. So, keep an eye on the Blue one. It will probably get worse as time goes by. You can even try to divide the worms up and put one portion on one side of the tank and while the piggies are eating there, put another portion on the other side of the tank for the Blue one.

 

[gatotsu77]

You are seeing first hand why we, the people who actually have discus, advise others to keep more than 3 discus. 3 is a bad number aggression-wise. It is so easy for one to get constantly picked on when there's not many to choose from. So, keep an eye on the Blue one. It will probably get worse as time goes by. You can even try to divide the worms up and put one portion on one side of the tank and while the piggies are eating there, put another portion on the other side of the tank for the Blue one.

I certainly am beginning to understand, and I am likely going to go purchase a 4th one from the same lfs tomorrow morning. (**** these fish are expensive!) It'll be a blue diamond discus, so I think it will really set off the colors in the red one, especially once I get my school of cardinals. I have observed a rather interesting behavior... the pigeon blood picks on the turq... but if the red one catches him doing this, he shoos of the pigeon blood so the turq can retreat. The red one has never shown any aggression towards the turq, nor does it really bother the pigeon blood until such time as said fish goes after the turq. Haha... sorry if that's all a jumble... I'll have to get a video of them some time. By the way, I've been feeding nothing but blood worms to my discus thus far, (as recommended by several people) but I tried introducing some krill into the mix this morning. The only one interested in them was the turq, but he didn't actually eat them, he just played with them. Perhaps he ate some after I left... but I siphoned most of the remainder out this morning before I went to work. (about a 10g change) Are there any other foods (other than beefheart... heard lots of stuff about that) which the discus will likely enjoy and will help vary their diet? Or can they handle a steady diet of blood worms?

 

[gatotsu77]

Ok, looks like I've finally gotten around to considering the filter options again. I've had a rather busy month. :-\ So, I'd like to ask a relatively simple question: Is a single XP3 truly sufficient for a 55g tank. (given my current stocking list) If it is, wonderful, problem solved. (I'd be running mostly bio media... first tray would be sponge pre's and filter floss, tray 2 and 3 would be full of Seachem Matrix. I presently have 1 full container of Seachem Matrix in tray 3) If it is not, I may need to consider an alternative for the other filter. I know this may sound ignorant, but I'm tired of my Emperor 400, and I want to replace it, if I cannot run my tank with the single XP3. I wanted to run a secondary XP3, however, that was when I was able to print off a price of only $90. Who wouldn't want an XP3 for that price? : As I was not quick to act, the price I would now have to pay is $140. An XP2 would cost $120, and an XP1 would cost $90. Argh... an XP1 for the price I could have had an XP3 for... that'll teach me not to procrastinate. At any rate... If the single XP3 is not sufficient, is it even worth adding the XP1 as an extra bio-filter/backup in case one fails? Should I look into the XP2/XP3 instead? Argh... I can't decide. I'd rather not cough up the $140 for the XP3, but if that is the best solution, I'll go for it. I'd love to have an answer from a few people by morning tomorrow if at all possible, as I'll already be over at Petsmart, but, by no means do I need to have an answer by then. If its worth spending the money on, its worth spending the extra few days talking it out before I buy it. Thanks in advance for your opinions and thoughts.

Edit: Just wanted to add one note to this post: I plan to add cherry shrimp to my tank. I know this won't add a whole lot to the bio load, but I figured that may factor into evaluating my situation. Thanks!