Assault Weapons Ban- Yea or Nea?

Originally posted by happychem

However, guns serve only one purpose, to kill. Tara, Lila, Tyler, others, the argument that a gun is no different that bats, knives, powercords, etc. is weak. These things all serve a non-violent purpose. If you can explain to me the non-violent purpose of a handgun, I would be intrigued. That said, I don't have any problem with someone like Tyler owning guns, he knows how to use them and use them safely. The ability to acquire an object that serves no purpose but to kill, whether for hunting, target shooting, or 'protection', should be restricted to those who can demonstrate that they have the maturity to store them safely and the knowledge to use them properly. Restricting the circulation of guns to people who can use them safely and keep them out of curious (or nefarious) hands doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

But a ban? That solves no problems.
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You do make a good point. Weapons are used for only a few things. Some people enjoy hunting, enjoy target shooting, or collecting of antique weapons. One of the things most people are missing is the education on how to use them properly.

I started to learn to hunt and shoot with my father, uncle, and grandfather at a very young age. They taught me gun safety and the proper care of them. To include safe storage. This is why I'm teaching my boys (ages 5 & 7) the same way that I learned. (My daughter will learn the same thing when she gets older.) I take them everytime I go target shooting or skeet shooting. They both have their own pellet guns right now. I teach them the safe way to carry, point, and shoot a firearm. Pretty much the do's and don'ts. They also are learning how to properly secure their weapons so as to limit the possibilities of accidents. By starting to teach my kids now, they are learning to respect firearms and not fear them.

I know that there is people who do leave them unsecured in a house. I wouldn't allow my kids go to a house that has them unsecured either. For example, all of mine are in a gun safe that they can't get into. The one that I got has no key for them to get to open it. They have to know the combination on the lock that I set. And if they did then they would have to get the keys to the trigger &/or slide locks.

Some people think that I have to many weapons in my house. I only use maybe 2-3 of them on occasion. The reason why I keep them all is because my grandfather left me most of them when he died in 1987 and they belonged to his father. So when my kids become grown men I plan to pass these same guns to them. By involving them and teaching starting a young age, they will know how to own and have firearms safely.

Originally posted by mogurnda
Nope. You are also trained to use them effectively, unlike a lot of people who believe that they can "protect" themselves with firearms. My ex was a federal agent who got a little tired of seeing people killed with their own guns. For most, it's a false sense of security. Plus, the more legal guns there are, the more will fall into the wrong hands when they are stolen.

I won't convince anyone, but I am always amazed that people think that they are safer with guns in the house.
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Mogurnda, I also agree with you. I seen stats once that showed that a good percentage of people end up getting shot or killed by their own guns when used as "protection". I know for a fact that I couldn't get to mine if somebody tried to get into my house. And if they did they wouldn't be able to open the safe and definitely couldn't get it out of the house. I had to get it delivered because it was way to heavy (450 lbs). :D
 
Tyler, I think that you must be the poster boy for responsible gun ownership. You'll never see me making an argument against someone owning weapons who treats them in the manner that you do: with the respect and caution due, understanding that they are not a toy.

Actually, yes, you do. You know your way around your house quickly; chances are the intruder doesn't
Guns also provide peace-of-mind. When I was being stalked all around town by some creep one night in my freshmen year of high school, I felt pretty safe knowing that my .22 was at the foot of my bed when I went to sleep that night.
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Like I said, what then? A shoot out? Or, while you're on your way removing your weapons from the locked cabinet - where you've responsibly stored them - and loading them, since no one "with education isn't going to have a loaded gun in their house right next to them", what's your family doing?

As for target shooting, I'll agree that it's great fun. But what is your taget shaped as? I still argue that a gun serves no purpose but violence, whether it be for self-defence or not, it is still violence. Okay, I'll acquiece that target shooting is non-violent, but can you claim that the majority of people who purchase handguns or assault weapons do so for target shooting?

Tara, while I agree with you about monster trucks being 'violent' and shoot 'em up games, my point was that a gun serves no purpose but to kill. Video games and demo. derbies may have destructive content, but they're geared towards entertainment. Drivers in the cars and trucks are trained and there are safety measures. The goal is not to inflict harm to a living being. Ditto video games, although you may argue that they desensitize youth to violence, that doesn't indicate that the game itself has no non-violent purpose.

The sense of security a gun provides, if we can accept that it's false, hardly seems like a valid point. Wouldn't a security system be more effective? How about instead of guns, a government program to place a panic button in every home that links instantly with the police? Getting a gun to combat a sense of victimization doesn't solve the problem, it exacerbates it by forcing you to rely on something other than yourself. It's a "band aid", as such it doesn't deal with the real issue of why you feel insecure.
 
There have never been guns in my house nor will there be. Guns contribute to our delightful American culture o' fear and violence, which I refuse to particpate in.

Ah, and for slipknottin, if I can tear him away from the racial sterotypes of the national rifleman, (though I know his argument was to say either the Japanese are different from America, despite Japanese culture and history being more violent than America's (Hi no Tori by Osama Tezuka is a good fanciful look at that, though Janse's Modern Japan and Beasley's Japanese Experience has a good bit of detail on both the rise and fall of the Shogunate) [Heston used a similar racial reason for gun violence in America in Bowling for Columbine, albeit on the grounds of racial homogeneity, which he quickly tried to back peddle on] or if I were to argue differently, he'd say anything can be used as a weapon).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3926317.stm

I'd post links to Japanese papers, but the Asahi's english search sucks, the Mainichi's English langauge site sucks, and you couldn't read the Japanese papers.

On the subject of Columbine, whatever you think of Moore's film, the fact is if guns hadn't been so easy to procure, not as many kids would have died (based on what I saw of the footage of the killing spree). Yes a knife can be used to kill people, but so can a chair, or a sack full of oranges; but it's not as easy as using a gun (and it makes me wonder about the people who say knife = gun if they think otherwise).

As for video games and monster trucks, the lack of personal responsibility in America means children are growing up unable to distinguish between entertainment and real life, which is a shame on our culture.

In anycase, I do wonder why I'm aruging about gun control on an aquarium forum.
 
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Tyler ... You're a respectable gun owner. My husband was also taught at a young age the safety of gun handling.

I enjoy shooting a gun. Well actually, rifle. There is one gun in our house that is secured. It's a WWII German pistol that my husbands late grandfather left to him.

I would not feel safe with a gun 'for protection' in my house. I am not completely trained in the safety use of weapons. Though I believe it comes with common sense. Which is obviously absent in many people.

My son loves guns. When he's at my in-laws, he's always asking to see the rifles. If my husband is not there, my FIL will not let him. I like that.

Cheech, I'm sorry to hear about your Uncle, but to blame the gun for the death of an impaired man is weak. If he had not been drinking, he may still be here. So shall we blame that on the alcohol? I am not trying to get you to change your mind on this issue.

I agree that we disagree.

;)

Lila
 
Originally posted by kikuchiyo

On the subject of Columbine, whatever you think of Moore's film, the fact is if guns hadn't been so easy to procure, not as many kids would have died (based on what I saw of the footage of the killing spree). Yes a knife can be used to kill people, but so can a chair, or a sack full of oranges; but it's not as easy as using a gun (and it makes me wonder about the people who say knife = gun if they think otherwise).
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Um, your argument might make sense if many of the weapons they used werent illegal. Tec-9, sawed off shotguns, bombs, etc. You need a nfa permit to own any of those.

Good evidence that a ban on guns isnt effective, as criminals are going to get them or make them regardless.
 
Slip ... it sounds like those who oppose guns, oppose them.

In other words, they just shouldn't exist. The impression I get anyway.

But the thing is, they do exist. I believe they are used responsibly moreso than not.

And the debate goes on ....

Lila
 
just like those who oppose drugs and alcohol.

History will show that trying to ban a substance/device from the public on the terms of the ban being good for society will always do more harm than good.

All the vices should be legal and regulated, at least there is some control by the goverment. If you make them illegal, the goverment has no control at all.

BTW- some 20-40% of our national GDP is made up of the underground industry. People working under the table, prostitution, illegal sales of items, etc. etc.
 
There will always be guns in my household. I have grown up around weapons and feel comfortable with them. But not too comfortable, since that leads to poor safety precations and people get hurt. I've taught my gf how to properly shoot all of the weapons that she will be around. She isn't a gun fanatic like me, but she realizes that she should be able to use one if there was ever the need. I truly believe that guns can be used to defend yourself and your home. If someone breaks into my apartment, I have the ability to stay within the bedroom and defend myself and my gf until the police arrive. Since the police cannot be there immediately it is my responsibility to protect myself until they arrive. I do this with a ParaOrdinance .45 caliber that is fully loaded at the headboard of the bed.

I also have a CCP that I make use of on occassion. I don't carry everywhere since most of my time is spent at school or in the hospital. But when we do go out and we'll be back late at night, I'm usualy carrying a small handgun. But carrying a gun is just a small part of being safe. Being aware of your surroundings and trying to avoid situations that could get violent are important. That's why I rarely go to parties that will have heavy alcohol consumption, bad things just happen.

I pray that I never have to draw a weapon on someone. But if I am forced to chose between defending my life and those of my family, I will make that choice.
 
Originally posted by kikuchiyo
As for video games and monster trucks, the lack of personal responsibility in America means children are growing up unable to distinguish between entertainment and real life, which is a shame on our culture.
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To me, this is the true problem and the real issue. No matter what it may be, gun, knife, truck, drug or whatever, people must be held responsible for their own actions. I do not believe we will become better and safer, no matter what the government does, until individuals are held accountable for their own behavior.

I have no desire to live in a world where I must own a gun. However, I also do not desire to live in a world where I can't.
 
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