Assault Weapons Ban- Yea or Nea?

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by Sensei_the_dojo
I think it's bad enough that many state governments have a vested interest in turning their citizens into gambling addicts. I sure don't like the idea of government sanctioned brothels, crack houses, child pornography websites, etc. Vices are not an area where "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" should become government policy.

regulating != promoting

child pornography is an actual crime, selling drugs or prostitution isnt. They are victimless crimes.

And the war on drugs has caused far more problems than legalizing them ever could. The same as prohibition had on crime.

 

[daveedka]

All I can say about packin' heat when you go out is shame on you. But we clearly have two very different perspectives on the world, and that is the basis of our respective moralities.

One of the great things about this country ( and Canada to a large extent) is our right to express our own opinions.

Please remember that as I said earlier, I have had to defend myself and family and it was very nice to have a gun when the situation was unknown. Furthermore, because I was able to control the situation completely ( and would not have been able to without a gun), there was no violence beyond the initial "attack, and the individual was able to be arrested tried and convicted. In doing this I broke no laws (I still live in a free state). There are places in this country where I would have been arrested for not allowing that individual to walk into my home and do what he wanted. people defend themselves with guns a lot in this country and most of the time there is never a need to fire a shot but very little is read or seen about it because it doesn't fall in line with the socialist views of our media, and general population. For me there is not and never will be a debate on whether or not I will carry a gun. I would much prefer to do so legally, but will do so when I feel it is necessary no matter what.

Guns lead to more violence and I see no purpose in any being in my house. If this country gets so dangerous that it's the wild west every time I step out the door I have no problem leaving it.

Guns do not lead to more violence, unless you feel that no one should fight back no matter what the situation. People should be allowed to defend themselves if they chose. People who would prefer to be a victim rathaer than promote vilence also have the right to do so, but I wish people would quit trying to take away my right to defend myself if I chose. As far as your feelings about leaving this country, I wish more People saw things that way, I consider that very respectable. If you don't like our culture, or our laws and traditions, there are many other places in the world to live, and unlike most countries our will let you leave when you want. I'm not asking you to leave, but do believe that more people should look at it as an option.

Are you serious??? lolol.. And you see that happening in this day in age? ? C'mon man...

When enoguh of the population quits beleiving it can happen then it will be a distinct possibility. As long as we recognoze that there is a danger and gaurd against it it cannot happen. You might want to do a little research on German politics in the 30's, and remember what it cost in human lives before people woke up and quit saying it couldn't happen. The only reason Hitler was able to carry things as far as he did was that the population refused to beleive it was happening. There are still people today that deny the holocoust (sp.) and claim we the big horrible americans made it all up.
Dave

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by cheech


Are you serious??? lolol.. And you see that happening in this day in age? ? C'mon man...

thats exactly the same sentament that allowed it to happen in the 30s.

 

[Sensei_the_dojo]

Originally posted by slipknottin


regulating != promoting

child pornography is an actual crime, selling drugs or prostitution isnt. They are victimless crimes.

And the war on drugs has caused far more problems than legalizing them every could. The same as prohibition had on crime.

The mere act of legalizing something gives people the idea that it's ok, that's pretty much the same as promoting it.

Selling drugs is a victimless crime?!? I'll buy that when you can show me that all the little kids these guys are pushing to are informed consumers who fully understand the consequences of what they're getting into.

There are those who would argue that some child pornography is also victimless, as long as the children involved meet the age of consent in the state or country where the pornography is produced.

 

[Snake Eyez]

Originally posted by happychem
All I can say about packin' heat when you go out is shame on you. But we clearly have two very different perspectives on the world, and that is the basis of our respective moralities.

Shame on me? Am I supposed to be ashamed for taking some sort of responsibility for my own defense? I am well aware of the job that cops are supposed to do? But the reality is that they simply cannot be everywhere and prevent crime from occuring. I much rather have a weapon and never have to use it, than need it and not have it.

I fully support the decision that you have made to not use guns. I can live with my decision since I feel it is my responsibility to protect myself and my loved ones. I would never want someone who is uncomfortable with guns to own one. People keep trying to shift more and more responsibility to the government instead of themselves. Then they complain that the government is denying them some sort of rights.

Val, did you make a mistake when you refered to the automatic weapons ban instead of the assault weapons ban?

 

[happychem]

As I have said, we were raised with different perspectives and therefore have developed differing moralities towards guns. My father owned 4 long guns, I was taught how to use all four, taught about safety and taught that they were not toys.

I can understand the point of view that you express, Dave's as well, especially since he has the empirical evidence to support it.

But for myself, I've found that carrying a weapon only causes the situation to escalate. The few dollars that I carry in my wallet aren't worth it. I know my temper, and I know that there have been situations where my being armed would have made things worse. Being unarmed, I've chosen to diffuse the situation.

In MY view, if someone pulls a gun on me, he's in control and as nervous as he may be, he knows that he's got the upper hand. If that balance is upset, then there's the chance that he panics, and that's something I don't want to risk.

But as I have said, this is how I was raised and my views and moralities have been shaped around it. I'm glad that we do not all share the same views because I truly do enjoy discussions.

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by Sensei_the_dojo
The mere act of legalizing something gives people the idea that it's ok, that's pretty much the same as promoting it.

Not at all. Your argument is somewhat mute because there are all sorts of people that only do things because they are illegal also.

Selling drugs is a victimless crime?!? I'll buy that when you can show me that all the little kids these guys are pushing to are informed consumers who fully understand the consequences of what they're getting into.

Um, regulating something means that there can be age limits on it, like alcohol or driving. I didnt say make it avaliable to everyone.

There are those who would argue that some child pornography is also victimless, as long as the children involved meet the age of consent in the state or country where the pornography is produced.

Its not child pornography if they meet the age of consent.

 

[Matak]

I'm curious. Why do Americans so strongly defend their right (or priviledge) to keep guns? It seems to be a uniquely American thing.

 

[kikuchiyo]

As far as your feelings about leaving this country, I wish more People saw things that way, I consider that very respectable. If you don't like our culture, or our laws and traditions, there are many other places in the world to live, and unlike most countries our will let you leave when you want. I'm not asking you to leave, but do believe that more people should look at it as an option.

My family came here because America was a bastion of freedom. I was born in rural Tennessee. They love this country. I'm loathe to leave it, no matter how bad it gets. I've been watching the DNC this week, cheering wildly for my political heroes. I'm tied to this country, guns or not, and those ties are hard to cut. And as people are saying tonight, even wayward, the soul of this country is worth fighting for.

I am an American, whatever anyone says. I don't think it's American culture for everyone to be packing or that it's American tradition (and yes, I know American history well) and my beliefs on the subject are as valid as yours. You obviously do and I'll say that's a difference of opinion. You stated your opinion politely and I try to do the same. However, if I feel like I need to have a gun to be safe, it's not worth living here - I don't think its part and parcel of American culture and I won't leave just because someone says it is.

Nor will I use a gun because someone says it makes them safer. Shall we start saying "If you don't love George Bush, then if you want to leave you should? Its tradition to love the President! Everyone loved Washington!" Is that where this country is going? If you don't like it, leave? I should hope not - I can continue to cheer for the Dems and I can still oppose guns and still be American. The most American value is that an American can change this country not that he or she has to leave.

It sounds like when the right wing was calling everyone who disagrees with this president "Unamerican." If you don't like our president, leave, they would say. I call sheningans. I can be anti-gun and still be American. All I said was that if it ever becomes so bad that I have to have a gun, then I will leave. Not because I thought it was an American tradition to have guns.

Anyway, I know that some people in America will want to have guns. It is their right in this country. But I honestly think America could use tighter gun control. A lot tighter, which doesn't trample that right.

I also hold that belief that guns are bad. I don't want them in my house, under any circumstances. But in this country people do have the right to have guns, though I believe they should be better regulated.

Why do you keep comparing it to japan when there are significant differences besides just gun control? Why not compare it to south america, canada, europe, mexico, etc. etc.

Because Japan is based on a Western style legal/political system with a violent history (of 2000 years). Because Americans set up the Japanese government? It serves as a good foil to the U.S. Because I know Japan? Because Japan is the first world nation I know the most about, behind the U.S.? Because I know what I'm talking about when I talk about it? Of course if you read the National Rifleman, with its myraid of racial sterotypes, sure they will seem different. I don't believe they're so different we can't learn.

Its not child pornography if they meet the age of consent.

It is if the age of consent is different. As it is in Japan. That's exactly what Sensei said...
as long as the children involved meet the age of consent in the state or country where the pornography is produced.

 

[Snake Eyez]

Originally posted by Matak
I'm curious. Why do Americans so strongly defend their right (or priviledge) to keep guns? It seems to be a uniquely American thing.

The same could be said for the right to free speech. The American way used to be that you did things for yourself and didn't look for the government to do it for you. But unfortunately, times have changed. It is no longer "what you can do for your country."