Beneficial Bacteria Question

NewObsession

NewObsession

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Aug 27, 2007
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ok, Maybe i'm just over thinking things but here is my question...

If I am getting my head around this, the beneficial bacteria bed grows to the size needed to balance the ammonia & nitrates in the tank, so while it takes taime for it to grow large enough, it also would not OVER grow as there wouldn't be enough "food" to sustain it. Given this fact, when you have an " extra" sponge filter in your tank to seed other tanks, or you change filters or remove something to seed another tank, are you not removing part of the bacteria bed needed for the tank and therefore risking a spike? And conversely, if the bacteria grow in proportion to the pollutants, as long as size was taken into account ( ie no oscars or goldies in a 10 gallon tank) , why could you not theoretically just keep adding fish slowly over time(or is is simply a size thing?)
 
IN large part you are correct, however, rememeber that the benifical bacterias reside on all surfaces, especially within the substrate. This becomes more profound in older tanks.

The "balance" is constantly in change - When was the last WC, did you over feed this week, etc. As for the sponge filter for seeding another tank, this is typically for a smaller tank (ie. QTs) or to do as it says, "Seed" anotehr tank to jumpstart the cultures. It will not instantly cycle a tank.

As for the removal from the original tank, again the spnge filter is always smaller than the filter and other surface media being utilized in the tank and thus represents a very small amount of the cultured bacteria.

Traditionally we ask that people try to leave a sponge filter in a tank for 10-14 days. This enables the bacteria to form, but not completely embed itself in the filter.

However, like myself, I run a small Whisper filter off of my 90G tank for a 10G QT when needed. It runs 24/7. As a result, my 10G QT is virtually cycled instantly and my 90G does not suffer any 'let-off' from the removal of the comparitively small amount of bacterias.

Did I answer your Q?
 
Yes thanks. At least I think so lol. I was jut mostly wondering about how much could be removed. THe reason being I bought some Bio Max tubes to put into my filter last night ( I had just jammed some sponge into it since it didn't come with and Bio media) So last night I pulled out the sponge, but left it in the tank because I was concerned about removing what BB I had developed ( its a 10 gallon tank and don't think its fully cycled yet).
Speaking of gravel beds though, I also run a UGF and had been concererned about gravel levels, but then read most people call for 2-3 ". I don' think mine is that thick.. so now I am wondering if it is possible to have too LITTLE gravel ( its probably 1-1-1/2")
 
I would be cautious in removing bacterias from a tank that isn't fully cycled obviously.

As for the gravel. Bacterias will grow on ANY surface, but in a new tank this will take some time. As for the depth, it depends solely on the circulatory function of the pump vs. the substrate. In other words, if you have a small 70GPH pump and 3" of sand good luck...

The 2-3" is a good rule of thumb for traditional gravel (1/4") for a properly sized powerhead.

Also, are you doing a typical UGF or a RUGF? I would advocate for the later IME. I run RUGFs in conjuntion with my HOBs and Cans. I'm very happy with the results, and I have all planted tanks.
 
Currently running UGF. still somewhat newbie to this and when I bought the tanks ( 2 10 gallon kits) I bought UGF's to go along with the HOB filters. I like the idea of running RUGF's and have been looking at powerheads but wasn't sure how much room it (they? do I run two with two uplift tubes?) would take up in a 10 gallon tank. Right now just running air stones
 
The RUGFs simply ru a standard powerhead, just inverted to push water as opposed to 'pulling' or drawing it up the tubes.

I use a single tube setup.

Nick, as to your question my term embedded was the wrong word. What I was attempting to get as is that the bacterias are not fully cultured and have not reach the point where the overall colonies are balanced between the main filter, the tank and the new sponge (whether it be placed in the existing HOB, a new filter entirely or simply a sponge filter over the intake itself).

I was just trying to get to the concept that the bacterias will reach a balance and that the 10-14 days is sufficient to establish a "Seed" colony, but not enough to fully disrupt the main tank's system.

I'm rambeling, but I think I clarified this...
 
keep in mind that the bacteria itself basically has a short life and is constantly in a cycle.

the bacteria can adjust to the changes in the levels fairly quickly( matter of hours).

removing or using established medai/bacterial colonies don't have a huge effect on the tank as they can compnsate quickly for those changes. the key is not to remove too much as it would take longer for the medai to catch up.
if you run a filter eith extra pads or an extra filte ont he tank..that pad/filter only carries the amount of bacteria that was fed to it. running a small filter next to a large filter given the flow rate is proprtional to the filters..the larger filter would sustain more bacteria.
but both would have bacteria in them. removing the small filter the larger filter would 'make ' up the difference as more food(ammonia,nitrites) become more available.
 
I understand the concept behind the RUGF, my only concern as I said was finding room for a powerhead in my 10 gallon tank, although knowing I could 86 one of the tubes would help.

But while on the now combined topic of Bacteria colonies and ugf's.. I had planned on making this a thread but it seems to work into this one..

the UGF's I have cover the entire bottom of the 10 gallon tank. In a larger tank, especially if it is being run as a secondary filter, could you simply run a smaller one, say a 10 gallon tank size in a 30 or 55 gallon. It would not cover the entire bottom, but would it not cultivate a colony in the area of gravel that it is under? AS well in my mind it would be more manageable if say you wanted to move or clean it than removing one from the entire bottom of the tank
 
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