Blackmoor dying!? Nothing is working, please HELP!

1

13BRAVO

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Sep 18, 2004
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First off, please let me apologize in advance for the long post!

I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction here. My blackmoor has been EXTREMELY lethargic for about a week now. I just finished treating him for ich a few days ago and then began treating for internal parasites with some metronidazale (probably spelled wrong) capsules, last night was the third night straight of the metro powder in the water treatment. Nothing has changed.

He just lies on the bottom of the gravel and doesn't move, he barely breathes. When it is feeding time he swims around and grabs some food, but last night when feeding him, whatever he took in he spit back out within a minute or two. Last night was the first time that has happened, until then he ate just fine but in between feedings he would just lay on the gravel like he was dead. He seems to have no strength either, if he goes near the small bubblewand, it send him flying in the air to the top of the tank and then he swims back down to the gravel and lays there again. Also, while laying there sometimes the current moves him back and forth, like he has no energy or strength to withstand it.

I am not sure what to do next, the ammonia reading is below 0.25ppm and the nitrites keep fluctuating between 1 and 3ppm, I am having trouble getting it to 0ppm, which hasn't happened since I learned about nitrites, and trates, and began testing. The nitrAtes are always under 20ppm.

So a few questions:

1) Why is my ammonia and nitrAtes low always but my nitrItes are high? Also, why can't I get the Ites down? Should I do repeated water changes until it is 0? With that stress my fish out too much?
2) Which brings me to my next question, the metro is a poweder that comes out of a capsule and is put in the water and it says to repeat treatment every 24 hours. Now, will doing multiple water changes (or even 1 water change) in that time negate the treatment?? I know nitrites are bad and should be taken care of regardless of treatments but is there a fine line?
3) Am I right in thinking he has internal parasites and that is the reason for his letharg? His symptoms include, extreme lethargy, not swimming normal, white feces, and as of last night, spitting his food up.
4) Any ideas as to what else I can do?

I desperately want to save him, not only for my child's sake (and my wife's) but mine as well. He is part of the family now!

Sorry again for the long post and thanks for your help!

13 BRAVO
 
It sounds to me like you are over medicating your fish. Here are some questions that would help me determine just what may be wrong.

1. was your tank's filtration system running while you medicated your fish for ick?

2. Did you do at least a partial water change after treating the fish for ick?

3. Did you add the new medication, the metro powder right after treating the fish for ick?

4. When was the last water change made?

It sounds to me like the problem you have is you are overmedicating your fish. Ick is not really a big deal, although ick points out that you must have an uncycled aquarium. Ick is such a weak aquatic parasite that a cycled aquarium, one that contains an established bacteria bid, will keep the water free of such a parasite since the bacteria is so strong it can compete with the ick.

Whenever you treated your fish for ick you likely decimated and destroyed the bacteria filter you already had, and thus the fish may be reacting to an increased stress situation since there is little natural bacteria in the water. First I would install all new filtration cartridges into your filter systems. That way all the medication that was in there will be filtered out. Also change around 30 percent of the water in the tank and replace with new clean water, untreated with any medication, but use your typical water conditioning products.

Now use double doses of a product called Stress Zyme, this will restart your bacterial filter. Also use double doses of a product called Stress Coat, this will help your fishes overall condition. Also do directed treatments to your water with a product called Aquaria Sol. All these can be found at any fish retail store. Stop the use of the powder medication, and if the ick spots are gone stop the ick medications use as well.

Hopefully soon you will see some signs of improvement.
 
Thanks for the reply macman, here is some background for you, please brace yourself!

The fish are in a tank with NO filtration system whatsoever. Even worse, the tank is a 2 gallon spongebob squarepants tank. Petco and my own stupidity got me in this mess. I am trying to make things right and am near finished cycling a bigger 6 gallon aquarium. I know it is not big enough but it is bigger than what they currently have and it is an eclipse 6 so it has a decent filtration system from what I hear. I am going to try and make some space for a 30 gallon to put them into as soon as possible but it isn't possible yet, hopefully within the next 6 months.

Now, to answer the rest of your questions:

1) No, because it doesn't have one.
2) Every night while treating them for ich we did a 65-75% water change to help control the ammonia, and nitrIte, trAte levels in the small tank. After the water change each night we would add some aquari sol. This was done every night. The last night of treatment we did an 85% water change and then added the first dose of metro to the tank.
3) Yes, the day after the last treatment for the ich, we did the first metro dose treatment, but after the large water change.
4) Last night. We do one every single night, soemtimes we do 1 in the morning and then 1 at night.

To treat the ich, we raised the temperature, and added aquari-sol and aquarium salt every night right after doing a major water change. A filter never even came into play because the tank doesn't have one.

OK, knowing what you now know do you still recommed I proceed with the same thing you mentioned above? Stop the metro treatment and add the stress coat and stress zyme? Both fish are excreting pure white feces so I am assuming that it is due to an internal parasite (I am getting this from what I have picked up reading here and there). Do you think they have a parasite? You recommend stopping the metro?? And just going with the stress stuff you mentioned? What about water changes? How often should I do them? And how large? I did stop the ich treatment, but all that was was the heat, aquarium salt and aquari-sol. I stopped the aquari-sol and salt because I didn't want to mix it with the metro. I also shut the heater off to get the water to a temp they prefer.

Thoughts?

13BRAVO

PS - Again, thanks macman!!
 
White feces is usually bacterial, though it can also be parasites. Either way, if it is something internal, adding medicine to the water is not likely to help.
Do you have any big containers laying around, say a 20+ something gallon Rubbermaid. Add treated water and an airstone and this in my opinion would be a better temporary home.

As for any troubles with the biofilter, I would guess it is a combination of the small size of the tank and the medications.
 
Ok, well it sounds like you know your kind of up s#$t creek without a paddle as far as this is concered. First off as you know tank size is very bad, no filter is very bad, the whole situation is bad.

Cleaning the water every day will keep the ni trites/trates low though it will also make certain you are establishing no form of bacterial filter. If I were you I would just return the fish to you fish store and set up a proper set up and learn a little more about keeping aquariums before starting again.

Although if you chose not to do that you could always go to wal mart and buy a 10 gallon tank for 10 bucks, fill it with water, treat the water with the chemicals I discussed before, insert the fish and hope for the best. Also pick up a filter of some sort while you are there, and good heater - 75 degrees F for the best results.
 
aquariumfishguy said:
A 2 gallon tank is a bad option... but since you already know that, I won't go into any details about it. Are you going to upgrade the tank?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I bought a Marineland Eclipse 6. I know it is only 6 gallons and that is not enough but it is all I can fit/find room for right now. I am almost finished cycling it, it should be ready any day now. I am looking/hoping to make room for and get a 30 gallon within 6 months or so. Hopefully, if they make it thru, the 6 gallon will hold them until then.
 
macman7010 said:
Ok, well it sounds like you know your kind of up s#$t creek without a paddle as far as this is concered. First off as you know tank size is very bad, no filter is very bad, the whole situation is bad.

Cleaning the water every day will keep the ni trites/trates low though it will also make certain you are establishing no form of bacterial filter. If I were you I would just return the fish to you fish store and set up a proper set up and learn a little more about keeping aquariums before starting again.

Although if you chose not to do that you could always go to wal mart and buy a 10 gallon tank for 10 bucks, fill it with water, treat the water with the chemicals I discussed before, insert the fish and hope for the best. Also pick up a filter of some sort while you are there, and good heater - 75 degrees F for the best results.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping you are wrong but things do seem grim. I will halt the metro and try the other things suggested above. Hopefully he pulls through!

Thanks!

13BRAVO
 
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