Can Biocoat go bad???

That is exactly what I was planning on doing if no one thought it was a horrible idea anyway. I'll give them a week to regain their senses after all this, and get a small tank ( been wanting another one anyway..what an excuse ! ) to put them all in for a day while I gut the tank and clean it. I'm thinking of getting an under gravel filter to use in addition to what I have now.. 2 Emperor 400's ... it creeps me out thinking something is lurking in there.....maybe a few fish after that....???


The other option is after your fish recover, put them in holding tank and chrun every inch of the substrate real well. then do a large volume water change and proceede with normal maintenance and vaccuming. In a non-planted tank, I'm a firm believer in vaccuming deeply and frequently. even with the best filtration and circulation there is an abundance of wate that settles in the substrate.
dave[/QUOTE]
 
Although someone will probably flame me for suggesting Undergravel, It really does take away that fear. I highly reccomend Reverse flow, and highly reccomend this article:
http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modul...ns&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=17&page=1

RTR wrote the article, and I haven't seen a write up yet the covers the whole subject better. You will get multiple conflicting opinions of undergravels, but those of us who have used them extensively and understand them like them a lot. I currently have 3 of the OERFUG versions set-up, and like them, but haven't decided if I like them better than standard RFUG (sorry RTR the verdicts still out for me). Either way if you want to go to the trouble, RFUG is a great system and aside from the advantages of a huge bio-filter, extra mechanical filtration etc. they do prevent anaerobic pockets in the substrate.
JMHO.
dave
 
Hey, if you get flamed..I got your back !! I am fairly certain that this is the route I will take, I'd much rather be safe than this sorry again ! Will the RFUG work with my current filters?

daveedka said:
Although someone will probably flame me for suggesting Undergravel, It really does take away that fear. I highly reccomend Reverse flow, and highly reccomend this article:
http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modul...ns&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=17&page=1

RTR wrote the article, and I haven't seen a write up yet the covers the whole subject better. You will get multiple conflicting opinions of undergravels, but those of us who have used them extensively and understand them like them a lot. I currently have 3 of the OERFUG versions set-up, and like them, but haven't decided if I like them better than standard RFUG (sorry RTR the verdicts still out for me). Either way if you want to go to the trouble, RFUG is a great system and aside from the advantages of a huge bio-filter, extra mechanical filtration etc. they do prevent anaerobic pockets in the substrate.
JMHO.
dave
Click to expand...
 
I run a combination of RFUG and Hob's on all of my tanks. RTR combines RFUG's with internal and external cannisters and who Knows what all else (as long as it's silent) essentially the RFUG should not effect any other filter and vice versa. And IMHO more filtration is better to a reasonable extent. The thing I like the most about my undergravels is the fact that I can pull filter media at any point, wash it any way I want and never worry about mini-cycles. additionally with RFUg vaccuming becomes an easy task, that almost isn't necessary. Every week I start my siphon, pull out all of my filter songes replace with clean ones refill the tank, and restart my filter. I take the dirty sponges upstairs pop them in the maytag, add a bit of oxyclean and run them through a cold wash cycle with an extra rinse or two. then set them on a shelf to dry for next week. 50% water change, vaccume and complete mechanical media wash inabout 35 minutes (can do it in 20 if i hustle). Life was never so good.

take a look at the penguin powerheads, the reverse flow sponge kits are great and quite inexpensive. I run 4x 1140 penguins on my 115g, RTR uses far less "push" than I do on his. One of the other great things about RFUg is that you can achieve massive water turnover with minimal felt current. My 1200 gph ( rated not actual) turnover through the bottom plate is all but invisible to my fish and plants.
HTH
dave
 
:p You are officially my favorite person on here ! Thank you soooo much for answering all my questions!!! I only have one more..for now anyway!!! I've been poking around online for a RFUG, and so far have not found one..and will this Penguin adapter fir the Emperor filter? Thank you again !!! ( I might sleep after all tonight!! )
 
Essentially you are setting up an additional filter, not one that ties into your Emporer. RUFG uses the same bottom plates and lift tubes as Standard UGF, the difference is flow direction. With standard UGF the water is pulled down through the substrate and up the lift tubes and out into the tank. When we go with RFUg we use pwerheads to pull the water from the tank and push it down through the lift tubes and up through the gravel. The sponge kits hang on the Intake of the powerhead and catch any debris that gets near them. this keeps the area under the plates clean and prevents any septic issues down the road. All the while your emporer will be doing it's own thing as well. So you can double filter, create a bunch of extra advantages, and probably not have to clean your Emp's as often.

Here is a picture of my 15g Guppy/snail breeder. You can see the penguin powerhead, and over to the right the intake for my penguin 125. This is a small tank so the powerhead pictured is a 550 (145 gph) I run the same thing on my 10g and 4 of the big 1140 (300 gph) model powerheads on my 115.
Dave

RFUG.jpg
 
I should add that on a 125g I would probably suggest starting out with 2 1140 powerheads, and see what you think. I run higher flow but most people don't. On a tank that big when you order your undergravel it will have two plates, each covering half of the tank. I would install one lift tube in each plate section and cap the rest. if you decide to add more later it's only a matter of moving the gravel off of the caps and putting in another tube. I also cut my lift tubes on the big tank so I can do a 50% water change with the powerhead still submerged. the powerheads can be a pain if you have to eliminate the air every time you do a water change. but setting them below change water level, they never lose prime. In my case, I have them on a seperate switch from my Hob's and heaters. I turn them off change the sponges and immediatly turn them back on. my tank never goes more than 5 minutes without circulation (yes I'm neurotic)

dave
 
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I guess I should have been more precise. Look for undergravel filters online, and get one that fits your tank. then order two penguin 1140 powerheads, and two reverse flow sponge kits. this will be everything you need except electrickery. Big Al's has all of it, but you might have to page through the marineland products to find the sponge kits (they don't search well at least not for me) IF you have trouble finding them let me know and I'll get you some links.

The undergravel filter is nothing more than a platic plate that creates space between your gravel and your bottom glass, and has some handy holes in the right places for tubes.
Dave
 
daveedka said:
Is bio-safe a dechlorinator??? I'm not familiar with the product. Also do you have chlorine or chloramines, and what do you normally treat with?
Dave
Click to expand...


Hi Dave.

Just an fyi for you.

Bio-Safe is used as a dechlor.

The main ingredient is a chemical called Sodium hydroxymethane sulfinic acid from what I read though there is a debate one whether or not ir really does remove chloramines. It does not bind heavy metals either.

Are you sure that it might be anerobic bacteria?

Anytime that I have seen or heard of pockets escaping there was no survivors. Usually all the fish are dead before the bubbles break the surface of the water.

Just wondering.

As for the cause. It could very well be the water source. Sometimes when cities do work on systems the water quailty can go south quite fast and then be fine a day later. I use the ghost knife excess sliming as my example. There very well may have been a bad batch of water in the system at the time of the first water change. It has happened here in Montreal a few times.

The scary thing is that the water will test normal from a fish test stand point because the water from a human stand point is still safe to drink and wash in or the city would have put out a warning to residents. But from a fish stand point that is an entirely different situation. There may be things that are causing the irritation and the deaths.
Then by the time the second water change was done all was back to normal.

I don't know just a theory.
 
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