Can SW tank overflows be Mod into FW sub filters?

[Star_Rider]

sump is really an extra storage container. the wet/dry portion is where the filtration goes.

(my sump similar to picture)

the large hole in the bottom of the tank is the overflow drain. the smaller hole(if it has 2 holes) is the return.

the water from the tank passes over the filtration media. in my case the wet/dry portion has a tray with filter floss/mat the water pases over this then passes over the next section (bioballs) then past baffles to the return where the pump then pushes water back to the tank thru the smaller return line(small hole in tanks with 2 holes)

 

[SMinNC]

I'm sure these are nice filters and all, but you wouldn't use half of it.

The part on the left is the Overflow, which you have two(built in) of.
The contraption sticking out of the top of the part on the right is a Protein Skimmer, used for SW.
So all thats left is that little bio-area you won't be content with.

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Shorter isn't good for a sump. One good reason is for power outages. You need to have enough, left over room, to handle the water that will drain through the over flow. This will vary by the type of over flow. Mainly the notches usually in them, that the water passes through. Also the GPH thats being thrown at it.

This will kinda explain where the water comes from.
As you can see by the different GPH, you'll have a higher lvl of water against the overflow. This is one reason why the better overflows are adjustable. You can run a higher or lower GPH and still have the same lvl of tank water.
So you gotta figure into your sumps height, around an inch of water, that could come from the tank.

More in the sump to come... gotta go for now.

 

[SMinNC]

Nobody home so I'm back for a few.

Here's a link for some DIY ideas, using storage containers/cabinet thingys.
I didn't read it, but the pictures were worth the link. lol
http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-filter/48.asp

Here's the simplicity we're looking for. Something like this, just don't need the overflow.

You'd most likely want to do something like this, sense you have 2 overflows...
http://www.promoplaneta.com/prot/sump.gif

 

[RodInCALIFORNIA]

the bio chamber in the tom wet dry filter isnt "little". if you seen 1 in person you would know that its quite a large wet dry filter. and the 3 media baskets are huge and deep. since you have the builtin over flows GUNNER you would be better going with the type of wet dry pictured in Star Riders pic, you can pick up that type of filter on ebay for great prices. and you have 2 over flows and they make models where you can connect your 2 hoses on the top of the wet dry and get a good pump and return hose and your good to go. i attached a pic of the marineland sump wet dry my neighbor just installed on his 250 gallon fresh water tank its pretty sweet set up. he has 2 built in over flows like you do and 4 goldfish the size of small chihuahua's in his tank LOL he told me the filter is rated for tanks up to 300Gallons

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

OK, the light are beginning to blink in my head now (boy a nap sure helps). So this whole concern about water flow stems around the open water container under the cabinet that holds the filter media. If water volume isn't considered between the overflows lowest point and the sump containers capacity to hold the volume of water at the overflows lowest point, you have a big watery mess.

So then lets suppose that the sump is waterproof and pressurized, have we now come full circle back to a canister? Is this what the Tom's sump is a watertight sump that will not leak regardless of the overflow level or volume of additional water, fudge factor gone.

I'm asking because I honestly don't know but what strikes me immediately is the need for an enclosed sump not only to prevent flooding but to stem evaporation which is a big deal around here where a tight lid on an aquarium means 1 gallon of RO water saved per day based on surface area not volume.

Is there some advantage to the open sump that out weighs possible flooding and evaporation loss?

How do you control the pump if the overflows run dry or get blocked, and auto shut off or does the pump just burn up?

Thanks so much you guys, I really appreciate the help as this is becoming much clearer to me.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

Uh-Oh, there that open container again! Or is this actually enclosed and water/pressure tight. Have I hit the cross roads of open sump / canister ideology?

 

[excuzzzeme]

Open sumps vs. enclosed isn't much different except for maybe a cover. When you compare against a pressurized system, then yes you have a huge canister filter. I simply use a piece of glass or acrylic for a lid. It helps to slow down evaporation.

 

[RodInCALIFORNIA]

my wet drys are "enclosed" meaning they have a lid on the entire top of it but no its not watertight most wet dry filters i have seen are "open" on top but it would be simple enough to have a piece of glass or acrylic panel cut to sit on top of it. my over flow boxes are called a continous flow type. i dont have the "U" tubes mine uses a aqua lifter pump to suck the air out of the over flow box and it creates it own syphon that starts the water flowing out of my tank into the over flow box and down to the wet dry filter and 1000 Gallon a hour return pump returns the water from the filter back into the tank. the reason i like my over flows and they wont let my tank flood the floor in case of return pump failure or electrical failure is as soon as the return pump loses power the aqua lifter pump on my over flow box breaks the syphon and all water flowing out of the tank stops immediately. and when power is restored the aqua lifter starts sucking air out of the over flow and self primes itself if the return pump starts up with it takes maybe 10 seconds for it to restart its self and the water starts flowing again. and if they both lose power at the same time the syphon is broken since the aqua lifter is not creating a syphon. that way there is no flood to worry about i have tested it several times and it works just as designed great design idea and the over flow is very quiet it has a cover on it and there is no loud swooshing or gurgling sounds some over flows make unless modded to reduce noise. question: you only use RO water for your fresh water tanks? & i have never had a over flow stopped up where water couldnt flow since no fish i have could fit thru the slits on my over flow box and if one could it would be so small it couldnt stop up the big pipe that takes my water from the tank to the filter. i havent ever heard anyone i know mention that ever happend to them. i have heard of "u" tube style over flow boxes losing syphon and the return pump burning up but thats why i choose my type of overflow so thats not a problem for me.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

OK I get it, the glass lid to slow evaporation fired the right neuron into place. The sump then is the original DIY external power filter. Simple DIY with unlimited capacity based on DIY volume and media used.

Another important question, with all the GPH rating and large media surface area why on the good earth does it take so much volume (50% or 100G) for me to set up a sump, it seems incredibly disproportional to a canister filter which obviously has less capacity both in volume and GPH. It would seem that for a 225 tanks like mine, a 50G sump would almost be overkill since its 25 times bigger then a rated canister fir a 225. But supposedly for 225G you need at least 100g sump right? Or is that 40-50% ratio way off and incorrect?

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

my wet drys are "enclosed" meaning they have a lid on the entire top of it but no its not watertight most wet dry filters i have seen are "open" on top but it would be simple enough to have a piece of glass or acrylic panel cut to sit on top of it. my over flow boxes are called a continuous flow type. i dont have the "U" tubes mine uses a aqua lifter pump to suck the air out of the over flow box and it creates it own siphon that starts the water flowing out of my tank into the over flow box and down to the wet dry filter and 1000 Gallon a hour return pump returns the water from the filter back into the tank. the reason i like my over flows and they wont let my tank flood the floor in case of return pump failure or electrical failure is as soon as the return pump loses power the aqua lifter pump on my over flow box breaks the syphon and all water flowing out of the tank stops immediately. and when power is restored the aqua lifter starts sucking air out of the over flow and self primes itself if the return pump starts up with it takes maybe 10 seconds for it to restart its self and the water starts flowing again. and if they both lose power at the same time the syphon is broken since the aqua lifter is not creating a syphon. that way there is no flood to worry about i have tested it several times and it works just as designed great design idea and the over flow is very quiet it has a cover on it and there is no loud swooshing or gurgling sounds some over flows make unless modded to reduce noise. question: you only use RO water for your fresh water tanks? & i have never had a over flow stopped up where water couldnt flow since no fish i have could fit thru the slits on my over flow box and if one could it would be so small it couldn't stop up the big pipe that takes my water from the tank to the filter. i havent ever heard anyone i know mention that ever happened to them. i have heard of "u" tube style over flow boxes losing syphon and the return pump burning up but thats why i choose my type of overflow so thats not a problem for me.

So your referring to a system without built in overflows right? Since mine are built in I cant enjoy the safety feature your talking about right? I like to grow house plants out of my aquarium and when leaves fall they sometimes clog the intakes and I have to pick out the dry leaves but I suppose no way a couple leaves here and there can block two 5x5" over flows. I guess all that left for me to di besides all the other work cut out for me is to look on ebay for a kit, maybe the Toms or decide if I really want to use my 60 24 tall tank as a sump container. I need the room anyway and its my smallest tank, do you think it will work with a 30 tall x 72 inch cabinet?

As we speak Im filling the tank to 50% which is sitting in the back of my mini pickup, hope the ribbed liner on the bottom doesn't hurt the glass as it will not be resting exclusively on the frame. Actually I stopped filling at 25% since the water is starting to get uneven due to truck suspension. Until the cabinet is ready and I have the cabinet dolly constructed 50 gallons of water in the bottom overnight should give me a preliminary assessment of the bottom seals which are the most important. The silicone looks good except for the top near the rim where it always takes a beating a little flaky here and there but I also have that on one of my 80 tanks I cannot fill too high or it weeps at the top, I was hoping I could just lay a thin outside silicone bead to fix that without having to drain the tank.