Cherry Shrimp help

[myswtsins]

I am a bit hesitant to tell you to go back to straight water if you already did that and it killed the shrimp. Tell me more about how the shrimp died then? And any chance it was related to issues other than the tap water parameters, like not a fully cycled tank, bad shrimp stock, containment etc? 8.4-8.8 it pretty high but I think it could be doable.

There are thing to consider with such an alkaline tank though like ammonia and nitrites (and nitrates even) are FAR more toxic in alkaline water. So top quality water conditions are a must. Which means low stocking, fast growing plants and never missing a water change. I think the embers would have to go to achieve that low stocking and also I don't think they will like that pH anyways. I have kept them in 8.2 pH myself but they were in a huge tank with tons of plants and very low stocking and they were ok. But in a reconstituted RO water tank they were phenomenal.

Did you buy the RO water you tried or do you have a RO system?

I certainly agree with stopping the additives. Those plants shoudn't need much extra ferts anyways, beside maybe some root tabs for the sword (which will outgrow that tank in about another week lol). Plus the purpose of plants should be to "filter" the water so you want them to be surviving on what is already in the tank, in a perfect world anyway.

I am very impressed that the stratum, wood and plants lower the pH that much with such a high KH. My pH is a rock solid 8.2 KH and GH about 10 and no matter how much wood or plants I have the pH has NEVER dropped,even in my 5k pond with rainwater and decaying leaves and everything it is still 8.2 always! So that makes me more interested in trying some stratum (been considering it). Thanks for the info.

And sInce all that lowers the pH so much, if you did more frequent smaller WCs I think the pH would possibly balance out somewhere manageable for everything. I mean a constant drip system would probably be ideal but that can be challenging for most people with one 10g tank and not a fish room. So yeah, let's try not adding anything to the water and slowly changing water but often and see what we get!

 

[KayPru]

Okay so I’ve made a few changes. I haven’t been adding any additives and have been monitoring all of the things I have testing kits for.(pH, hardnesses, and the three forms of nitrogen) So far there have been no shrimp deaths throughout this process. I even found an extra one hiding in the plants!

It’s been raised to my tap water pH and I’ve been watching it to see if the Fluval Shrimp Stratum will pull it down at all.

1. The bioload of the aquarium was mentioned as a potential issue so i set up my old 5 gallon tank and am currently cycling it with my old filter. I put some standard small rock substrate from petco in there. Should I instead invest in some seachem flourite or something? Or do Cherries not care enough for special substrate?
2. My LFS tested the water and they said that the aquarium substrate might be sucking kH out of the aquarium, which is why my kH is so low. They thought it was really weird so thoughts on that? I do have quite a few plants in the tank too, would they be sucking out my kH or gH?
3. I noticed that my filter doesn’t have a “bio scrubber” so when I change the filder media I basically replace All of the established bacteria. Is this going to cause problems? I have a tetra whisper on the old 5 gallon, it came with the tank and does not have a bioscrubber, and just bought an aqueon quietflow 10(which does have a bioscrubber) for the 10, although I might switch them because the tetra whisper moves a lot more water.
4. How long until I should expect to see eggs on the shrimps. I know I just have two now but in a week or so I will add more if there aren’t any more problems.

 

[KayPru]

myswtsins I just saw your post, give me a minute to write back.

 

[KayPru]

My entire shrimp keeping experience has been me trying to get these seemingly easy invertebrates to breed but I ran into problem after problem, leading me to gradually change things about the tank. I found that they most commonly died after water changes and females would soon die after being berried. Which honestly sucks because I would get so excited and then they would just die.

I have strong suspicions that maybe the drops in pH or kH were my fault from when I would lower the tap pH with the pH down. The tank has been much more stable since I quit adding the extra chemicals. The pH still falls a bit on its own but not nearly as drastically as it used to, it's very minor and stays above 7.5(but my tap is 8+) I set up the 5 gallon to test the two different substrates and see if the stratum really does have a significant impact on the water.

I have not used RO water, I meant to but there was a giant freeze here in Louisiana last week and Walmart was pretty much out of jugs.

I have a two liter Dasani bottle that I use for water changes, I do that once or twice a day for the 10 gallon. It's set up so that it drips very slowly into the aquarium and I just leave it dripping while I'm out of the room.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Wish I could help you with what ever is changing your water parameters. I've been lucky in that my tap water stays a pH of 7.6 and my Kh and GH stay in the low 100s and my tanks always follow suit. Unless it was some special project I was after, I wouldn't be in the hobby if I had to constantly chase numbers.

In regards to your 5g that you mentioned you're cycling. If you added seeded media, it's good to go. You add your stock and watch your nitrogen params.

You also mentioned you change ALL of the media in one of your filters? That could cause issues. Generally at a minimum there's a piece of sponge or some type of plastic grid work for beneifical bacteria to grow and stay on. You can swish that out in tank water to clear chunks off of it. Other than that you leave it intact.

If your filter doesn't have this, I'd get a better filter.

 

[KayPru]

Thank you guys so much for all of your advice! There's already been a significant drop in deaths in the tank
Update:
The new 5 gallon will be a species only cherry shrimp tank, here are the current params.
pH: 8, kH: 9º, gH: 5º Ammonia: 0, Nitrate: 0-5(very slightly golden orange, will do a WC), Nitrite: 0.
Tap: pH: 8.4/8.8 kH: 8º, gH: 2º-3º
I set up the 5 gallon tank with old filter media from the 10 gallon tank and got a filter sponge so I'm not changing all of the media when I change the filter later. I used plants from the old tank and just have the new substrate. For a while, my water was kind of bubbly(like soapy? It was weird.) but after a few water changes that went away. I've been doing a 2 liter change on that every day as well. I moved my old two cherries into the five gallon yesterday and bought six more from the LFS, so far I've only had one of the new ones die. Here's some pics, in case it helps. Is it a molting issue or just a pet store fluke?

 

[myswtsins]

Glad to hear things are going better. Bubbly water is concerning but we'll let it slide for now I guess. Hard to say what caused the death but I can see white body and a split in the carapace. White body could be bacterial infection BUT that also happens after death sometimes when bacterial starts breaking down the flesh. Did you notice any white or cloudiness to any of the shrimp prior to death? A split in the outer shell at the abdomen point can be a molting issue for sure. So many things can cause molting issues though. Proper diet and balanced minerals in the water are the top factors IMO. Being that they just came from the store though can certainly be the issue.

Even though you took stuff from the other tank and put it into this tank it is still not mature which is preferred for shrimp. So let's just keep up the good work and keep an eye on everyone. Hopefully no others will die. Watch for behavior (should be active and constantly grazing), color changes, cloudiness and if they are eating.

 

[KayPru]

I know that the tank probably wasn’t mature enough but my tetras got ich and I wanted to be able to treat it without killing my shrimp by messing with the parameters for a completly different issue.

I started feeding them just bits of blanched zuchinni and removing what they don’t eat. I need to get a dish.

For the most part they graze consistently, I can’t always watch them though. Sometimes they will just cling, very still to some java moss. One of the females have a lighter stripe down her back, like how you get neon yellows with stripes sometimes. I’ll keep watching and send pictures if I find any color changes. If it is a bacterial problem should I try to treat it or just hope the shrimp naturally overcome it?

 

[KayPru]

Here are the living specimens, they don’t look infected to me? The pet store gave me the yellow one for free

 

[myswtsins]

They looked good to me, they even look like a decent grade. The yellow and reds can interbreed and you may get some crazy colors or revert to "wild" brown. Not always a bad thing but purist don't like to mix lines. If you do sell any babies from these guys it would be right to inform people that they could be hybrids even if they don't show signs of it.