Cichlid Tank Gravel (Sand) Questions

E

eylk

AC Members
Aug 5, 2007
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Hello,

I have a Cichlid Tank set up for a while now...

http://img356.imageshack.us/i/image388.jpg/









60 Gallons
KH : 8-10 dh
PH : 8.0-8.2
GH : My GH set is defective !! but I use SeaChem Cichlid Salt

Ammonia : 0 ppm
Nitrite : 0 ppm
Nitrate : <20 ppm

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GRAV VAC

For my other tank with gravel, I used my home made grav vac apparatus on it with no problem.
(I cut a plastic drinking bottle into half, tape it to a hose and use a hand pump to start
the siphon)

However, it doesnt seem to work on sand. Its too weak to suck the detritus if I keep a small
distance from the sand and it will suck always too much of the sand if I put it closer.
On top of that, water displacement is too rapid.

Can I know what are your preferred methods of doing it? I've heard a lot about the Pthyon,
but I am looking for a "Plug-into-the-wall-socket" powered Grav Vac Apparatus that does not
need to rely on the siphon-with-gravity method..something that will not displace water so
that I have to scope it back into the tank.

I have considered the Eheim Gravel Vac
http://www.eheimasiapacific.com/prod_e_acc_clean.html

however, Im skeptical about it solving my problem as Im afraid that the Suction power might
not be strong enough, and that the sand might get stuck along with the detritus in the filter
compartment, defeating the purpose.

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Enter Sandman

Since Im here, I might as well post a few other questions...

To stir the sand with your hands or not?
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/videos/cleaning_sand.php
says Yes, as it releases trapped harmful gases.. Condoned...

http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/silent_killer.htm
says No ... Condemned.. Im still reading up on the Anaerobic Bacteria converting Nitrate to Nitrogen Gas and whatever NNR is. Any input will be appreciated. However, I get the impression that the author seems to think a benefical bacteria can only grow on the sand bed, suggesting a 90%PWC and all.. Dont beat me up if I get it wrong, I read it sleepy-eyed

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Sand Bunkers

Im also worried that whenever I stir the sand manually or do a Grav Vac, I upset the Cichlid hierarchy... with their territory all dug and stuff.

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Snails

Spots of Green and Brown are also starting to grow on the rocks... I need a Clean Up Crew.. I read that Malaysia Trumpet Snails will burrow and help to aerate the Sand Bed but I think they can reproduce asexually and be a pest. Any snails that will not spawn much, burrows and eats ALL types of algae (including the black stubborn algae that only SAEs eat..)

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I will also like to thank all the members of the forum here who have answered my queries in the past.. and in the future..

The tank is not perfect... yet. But its still beautiful and you guys really helped!
 
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NNR is the chemical reduction of nitrate to nitrogen carried out by bacteria in anoxic regions of a sandbed. Normally to achieve any real benefits the sandbed needs to be 3"-4" deep. If it's shallower that that you might as well stir it. And even if it is that deep your fish are disrupting it with their excavations. The way to prevent this is to place a layer of screen about 2" below the surface of the bed to preven the fish from disturbing the deeper regions where this reaction is carried out. As far as your algae "problem" all of the fish in you pics are Mbuna, which naturally graze on algae. In this type of tank my philosophy on algae removal is simple. If it's not growing on a piece of glass I look through I have better things to do than remove it! It's a healthy addition to the diet of the fish and general water quality. If it really bothers you that much try shortening the amount of time your lights are on.
 
I use the tubing sans gravel vac and just focus on the surface debris. I typically stir the first inch or so of substrate while doing this and remove quite a bit of sand each time I vac ( once a week ). I haven't had any issues with trapped gases in my sand-only tanks.
 
Unless those are old pictures I didn't notice much algae build up... not enough to be considered a problem.The brown stuff is usually diatoms and will go away with regular weekly water changes. Try a bristlenose plec for the green stuff. I don't think snails would last long in your setup.
 
haha exactly what grav vac are you using?

think i'll stir the sand manually, but what about their territory? i've seen them excavate for hours .. will it upset them?

Im afraid the green algae will blow up and that the brown one is actually (name forgotten) the type that only SAEs and is really hard to come off except for vicious scrubbing..

may I know why snails will not survive? is it cos of the cichlid aggression? I haven had snails before.. but im sure my water is hard enough.... oh wait.. I dont have a test kit.

thanks
 
tooNice tank setup! I love those rocks!

I use a Python for water changes. I actually take off the adapter for the sink and run it out my front door so that I can get MORE suction then is provided by hooking it up to the sink. You may very well find a good ratio of suction vs. water displacement with a Python with seems to be your concern...??? I run out of debris to siphon LONG before I hit my 50% WC mark but I do have an UGJ system which works very well. I have also seen people use old canister filters for a continuous WC loop & shop vac tops over barrels too. I do not know much about those methods though. I do know I love my Python. :)

As for stirring the sand my Mbuna stir it ALL the time so I do not worry about it unless I see a spot they don't touch. I do not know if it stresses them out if you keep messing up their burrows though, sorry.

MTS (Malaysia Trumpet Snails) do burrow the sand well but they also produce asexually & can get out of hand in normal tanks. Since your tank has fish that like the ocassional snail time snack (that is probably why AfroCichlid said snails won't last btw) they would keep the numbers under control. Over feeding always contributes to their population booms too. They spend a lot of time under the sand so they would most likely never be completely consumed. A warning though, once you put MTS in your tank they are nearly impossible to get rid of for the exact reason I just mentioned.

For the algae I agree with SubRosa, it is health & natural, if it bothers you try a BN or shorten the light period.
 
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haha thanks !! I think i'll explore the python after all.. seems like there isnt anything on the market which fits what Im looking for... an a reasonable (im cheap!) price.

I do have some kinda of old power head which I use to drain the water... thought of modifying it to be the grav vac-er that im looking for but Im no handy man...

but snails have shells !!! but im not going to risk it.. the last thing I want is to fight never ending waves of snails like survival mode in left for dead.

Actually.. I kinda like the green pecks.. haha looks natural.. its the brown thats really ugly..

Do you have any experience with parasite infestations?

Thanks
 
I agree with the above info and a side note - my Mbuna do the same thing with the sand and i like to tick off my males and push the sand back down and they start all over again hehehehe.. :hitting:
 
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