Complete Newbie needs a bit of help

OH NO.... it's ok don't be so hard on yourself you have done your very best I havnt' read the entire thread but it looks like you have tried really hard, i'm sorry it has taken a turn for the worst I hope your tank is not lost.
I read a little of the beginning did you chuck in loads of fish food? Then add fish? Perhaps the fish food is now really going off have you done a really good gravel vac and maybe given your filter a light swish in some emptied tank water? Maybe the food all going off is making your ammonia spike really bad.
If this has already been mentioned to death and you've tried it please forgive me like I said i didnt' read all of the thread.
 
What did you use Ammo-Lock for? This might give you false positive readings on your test. And what does "all these beneficial bacteria" mean?
 
Ulan said:
What did you use Ammo-Lock for? This might give you false positive readings on your test. And what does "all these beneficial bacteria" mean?
Click to expand...


The LFS bloke told me to keep using it. I guess like a dumb idiot I did. That was exactly what I was thinking with the Ammo-Lock but how do I know if my Test Kit is a Nessler Reagent Based kit? It doesn't say on the box (Red Sea Fresh Lab Deluxe Test Kit ) and I did a search on the net and couldn't find any info on it. I could not find any info on which kits were Salicylate based kits and which wearn't. Whats worse
when I took sample water to him and he came back with a toxic reading, I asked him if his was a nessler kit and he didn't know what I was on about.

If mine is a nessler kit then I will be happy as then I will know that the reading is false. The beneficial bacterial are the crap they are selling in the bottles like Cycle etc. I guess I have really learn't a big lesson. :sad:
 
Ok the more I study this anomalie the more I get irratated. This High Ammonia levels have to be the result of Ammo-Lock. No doubt about it.
Now I am running around trying to find a Salicylate Test Kit. Someone please help me and put me in the right direction :bowing: Anyone know which test kit to buy? Currently I am running blind unable to get an aqurate reading Waaaaaaaaaa
 
Hi Shermanator,

First congrats on your tank and even more congrats for coming onto the internet for help, info and advice.

I'm also a newbie to this forum and fish tanks. But I did heaps of reading before I set up my tank and even more work once it was up and running.

From what I read and talked to some LFS people, this info might help you.

1) I also have the same reddish plant. I believe it is called a Violet, it is not a true aquatic plant, but rather one that needs to be partially submerged in water. I took my Violet out of my aquarium (it was starting to wilt away like yours) and put it into my pond, where it is now happily thriving- and even flowering! I also believe that plants with red leaves need a very high light source (and lots of iron to keep it red) and will wilt away or turn a dark green if it hasn't got the right requirements.

I suggest getting a bunch of Elodeas, they are cheap, easy and grow like crazy. They will also help with the cycle and if the plants start dying - its a sign your aquarium is in danger. Sort of like a canary in a mine.

Next time you go to your LFS, check to see if they have a poster of plants, most likely they come from a supplier called something like Pices Enterprises. They have a website on the posters, but I can't remember the exact name or address now. The website is a little crappy, but it does seperate true aquatic plants from partial aquatic plants. And you can also see what kind of plants you can order from your LFS.

Also, check the pH level is ok for the plants you are getting. Some plants require low pH, other high pH.

In Australian tap water, we have iron, calcium, fluoride (not sure how good that is for our fish) and a whole lot of other chemicals which will help plants, but liquid fertiliser is a good addition, but too much may increase algae levels.

2) Do you still have the UGF running? There is debate over the use of UGF with plants. The reason being is that it is believed that an UGF will suck the nutrients that plants need (ie from the fish crap and bacteria that lives in the gravel) However, there are many UGF users that have very lush aquarium plants.
Judging from the thick layer of gravel you have. Your plants will be ok. But how will you clean under the UGF?

3) Ammonia levels will also depend on your Ph levels. A direct quote from my test kit states:
"The products of metabolism, leftover food and residual plants are biologically degraded in an intact aquarium. There are three stages to this process of decomposition.
>In the first stage, harmless AMMONIUM is formed with pH levels BELOW 7.5, and toxic AMMONIA at pH levels over 7.5.
>In the second stage, micro-organisms convert the toxic ammonia into equally toxic NITRITE.
>In the third stage, NITRITE is similarly broken down by micro-organisms into NITRATE"

So the general jist is there's a difference in AMMONIA and AMMONIUM. And also NITRITE and NITRATE. For more info there's a calculator with explanation at http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~piwc/w3-research/free-ammonia/nh3.html
Else search this forum, there's endless info.

Also, the higher the temperature and pH, the higher the AMMONIA will be. A short explanation at
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89017

Wood and CO2 injection has been said to reduce the pH of the water, but this needs to be monitored if you have fish that require higher pH water, such as Tetras.

4) During my initial cycle, I did about 15% water change every 3 days for 2 months. Even though I have alot of plants (perhaps 30 stems or so), I siphoned out the poo from the gravel too keep it in check. If my tank smells bad, I know there's something wrong. Bad eggs = ammonia levels, rotten vegies/dirt smells = too much fertiliser.
Now I do about 25% water change every 5 to 7 days, and my plants have almost doubled with additional CO2 injection.

PS. Use the fish water for your garden, the fish poo is great for plants, especially with our water restrictios. Sydney is now up to stage 4 or 5 water restrictions! My garden is dying out but the tank water helps alot.
And hey, its a good workout lifting those 2 x 12L buckets from Bunnings. I swear, they seem to be getting lighter each time.


I hope this was informative and anyone, please correct me if my info is wrong!

=)
 
Very Little information has been provided on this subject but I have done some ground work on it for newbies. I ended up purchasing an Ammonia Alert by Sechem that tests free ammonia instead of the binded ammonia (Ammo-Lock). Most test kits here in Australia sell the Nesller Kits instead of the Salicylate based kits. I don't know why these shops sell products like Ammo-Lock when they don't sell the appropriate Ammonia Test kit that doesn't pick up its binding. For know I am able to see whats happening via this Alert card.
Went to a friendly LFS who did a test with their kits and even then on theirs the ammonia went of the chart. According to them they have never seen it change so fast and with readings like that my fish should have been fried.

The hardest part is to convince myself that I don't have an ammonia problem.
 
I'm using NH3 testkit by Vitakraft. No idea what its based on?
 
Thanks Lazynode,
All information is much appreciated. As you maybe aware I was in the middle of looking into this anomalie with this Ammo-Lock I was using. It may be a little premature but I think I have 100 percent sure that I don't have an ammonia issue. The Ammo-Lock was giving wrong "Toxic" readings using the test kit I have and too alot of the Aquariums situated here around where I live. I always suspected this - but the problem was I was running blind not knowing where the ammonia level was at. Until I got that Ammonia Alert card I mentioned. The plants seems to be going ok for the time being and although not thriving they are settling in ok.
I was speaking to the nice lady at LFS about the effects of the undergravel filter actually in regards to what was happening above. They told me if you are using a cannister filter, then the undergravel filter works against the cannister filter as it traps Ammonia and other crap underneath it resulting in maybe increased ammonia and stuff. They advised to do away with it altogether. I presume it is a debatable. But till now I will see what is happening and then take it from their I guess. Now that the whole thing is up and running it is pretty hard job to pull it out altogther without giving the fish another heart attack. But I will keep montoring as see how it continues. Its been about twenty minutes since that card went in and it still saying safe. Looks like I may have won :coffee:

PS- Ammo-Lock or any so called Ammonia Removers/Binders will give you a False Reading- I have one thing to say about the author of the book "The Complete Idiots Guide to Setting Up a Freshwater Aquarium" he was spot on about the Ammonia giving a false reading when using these types of products. No other book I have read even comments on it. I Fantastic book to own!!
 
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That's great that you found your confidence again :). Keep in mind that, even if you use a test kit, your fish are good indicators of water quality, too. Do they look uneasy? Are they breathing heavily? Do they stick to the water surface? If not, the reading of the test kit cannot be right.

The color chart of nessler kits shows shades of amber, whereas salicylate-based kits show colors ranged from yellow to green. Ammo-Lock should produce a dark brown color with a nessler kit.
 
I have just read that also some Salicylate Test kits may also give a false presence. These are the kits that don't according to a ammonia discussion paper I am reading- Mydor Ammonia Test Kit, Kordon's AquaTru Test Kit, Seachem's Multitest Free and Total Ammonia Test Kit and LaMotte Salicylate test Kit. I beleieve their maybe more. If someone Knows please let us know. So I will be hitting the road to find the Secheam one. Hopfully all goes good- Furthermore my Ammonia Alert has still not changed color- So after all the crap that I have endured with it is hard not to see any change.
 
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