confused- where the heck am I in this cycle?

[injunear]

Basically the cycle works like this:

The first type of bacteria turns ammonia into nitrite. When this colony is established your ammonia will rapidly drop and your nitrites will rise.
The second type of bacteria turns those nitrites into less toxic nitrates.

Nitrites will drop and nitrates will rise. Once your nitrites are no longer present but nitrates are you do a water change. Now your tank is cycled.

you must feed the tank a good amount of ammonia every day, keep testing,

you will see your ammo levels begin to drop
and you will now see nitrite levels rise, you must now begin testing for both ammo and nitrite, continue
feeding ammo, after a week-a few weeks you will see your nitrite levels begin to fall, now you must also test for nitrate... once you see that and you can add 3-5ppm ammo and the next day your tests show 0 ammo and 0 nitrite, your tank is cycled.

I have been cycling (fishless) for 4 weeks now. I took the above quotes from the sticky cycling thread above.

I have the following:
>Ammonia- 1~2 ppm ( dropped from 4~5 in about 7 days and since I’ve added no more)
>Trites- high, out of range of the test kit
>Trates- 20~40 ppm (steady)
> PH- 8.6
> KH 12~13

Test kits- API liquid

My tap water has no ammonia, trites, or trates.



In accordance with the first quote, I should have seen the ammonia rapidly drop nitrites will rise.

Although I have both ammonia and trites, I never saw any “rapid drop”…..Please define “rapid”.

Additionally, about 10~12 days ago, believing that the cycle had stalled, I did about a 60~70% water change at which time obviously my amm, trites, and trates were low. I spiked the ammonia back to 5ppm at that time.
I did this to ascertain whether of not anything was happening. Obviously something is, but not as fast as I think it should be. I know that this added more time to the cycle.


The second quote says that I should continue feeding ammonia. Well, okay but when does one stop adding ammonia in order to allow it to drop to 0? The last time I added ammonia was about 7 days ago. It appears that the rate at which my bacteria is consuming the ammonia is approximately .4~.7 ppm/day.
Is that right? One would think the consumption would be higher, say 3~4ppm/day?

The second quote implies that I should see trates only after my trites begin to fall, however I have both, with Trites high and out of range, and I don’t see any appreciable change in trates over the last 5 days (20~40 as best I can tell).
Comments?

 

[abcdefghi]

The nitrates increase much slower than the nitrites, keep dosing ammonia, your nitrites will go from being off the chart to 0 very quickly (one day you will see nitrite off the chart, the next gone).

Be patient, you are making good progress......... and trust me, 4 weeks is not that bad of a time so far. My first cycle took months, and the second took about 8 weeks (low pH and soft water issues).

 

[Sploke]

Things look fine to me. When I fishless-cycle,e I check ammonia every morning. If its below about 5ppm, I dose again. I consider the cycle complete if I can done up to 5ppm ammonia and 24 hours later read 0s for amm and nitrite. Only then should you do a water change and start stocking. I would ignore nitrate levels until the cycle is done - if nitrites are decreasing, then you will have nitrates. You should be close to done though.

 

[Star_Rider]

Actually what you are seeing is pretty typical.

understand the bacteria involved in the cycle..the ammonia should not drop off all of a sudden and you see a spike in nitrites.. the ammonia actually should taper as the bacteria consume it and the bacteria colony establishes..eventualy dropping to 0 (altho ammonia may be present the bacteria will soon consume it..
as the ammonia drops off the waste from those bacteria causes a nitrite rise..eventually peaking as the ammonia drops off. then nitrite will peak then drop.it may drop fairly rapidly..while nitrite drops the nitrates should start to climb.

cycles typically take 4-6 weeks (depending on water)sometime longer.
they can be sped up with the introduction of live bacteria from an existing tank.

 

[injunear]

Actually wyat you are seeing is pretty typical.

understand the bacteria involved in the cycle..the ammonia should not drop off all of a sudden and you see a spike in nitrites.. the ammonia actually should taper as the bacteria consume it and the bacteria colony establishes..eventualy dropping to 0 (altho ammonia may be present the bacteria will soon consume it..
as the ammonia drops off the waste from those bacteria causes a nitrite rise..eventually peaking as the ammonia drops off. then nitrite will peak then drop.it may drop fairly rapidly..while nitrite drops the nitrates should start to climb.

cycles typically take 4-6 weeks (depending on water)sometime longer.
they can be sped up with the introduction of live bacteria from an existing tank.

Yeah, I know...I've read this many times but this isn't exactly the course my cycle is taking......
That's what's confusing!

 

[SilentMajority]

I am also in the nitrite phase of my fishless cycle, but my tank burns through 3-4 ppm of ammonia in 12 hours. What temp is your tank at? I am cycling mine at 85F.

So far my nitrities are crazy high, somewhere between 10-20ppm, but I'm trying to be patient for the day that I test and its zero. My cycle is only about 3 1/2 weeks old though.

 

[injunear]

I am also in the nitrite phase of my fishless cycle, but my tank burns through 3-4 ppm of ammonia in 12 hours. What temp is your tank at? I am cycling mine at 85F.

So far my nitrities are crazy high, somewhere between 10-20ppm, but I'm trying to be patient for the day that I test and its zero. My cycle is only about 3 1/2 weeks old though.

Temp is around 90F. I'm 4 weeks, one day..........My ammonia burn off isn't anywhere near yours (yet, I hope).

 

[THE V]

Turn your temperatures down. Nitrobacter species grow optimally at 28C (82.4F) (Bergey's Manual of Determinative Bacteriology) . You are slowing down the bacterial growth by having the temperature too high. At 90F it can be as much as 25% slower than 82F.

 

[SilentMajority]

Turn your temperatures down. Nitrobacter species grow optimally at 28C (82.4F) (Bergey's Manual of Determinative Bacteriology) . You are slowing down the bacterial growth by having the temperature too high. At 90F it can be as much as 25% slower than 82F.

Thanks, I appreciate your input as I only raised my temp based on what I heard and do not have a Bergey's Manual. But I've also heard that the bacterial genus responsible for nitrite to nitrate conversion is nitrospira, not nitrobacter?

Again, this is what I've been hearing, not anything based on any science I have directly seen.

 

[THE V]

Nitrospira spp. are mostly only found in Marine habitats. The majority nitrite to nitrate converting bacteria in freshwater is in the genus Nitrobacter.

Nitrospira spp. also belong to the same family as Nitrobacter and also have an optimal tempterature of 28C.

So basically Nitrospira for marine and Nitrobacter for freshwater.

BTW if you want to read the source just type in "Nitrobacter" and "Bergey" into google. Important excerpts are available from google book search. Read starting on Page 448.