culling matters

[dixienut]

And often fish that are not culled reach all the box stores and most everyone complains about the poor quality and genetics....get real folks....

inbreeding is the reason you cull mostly, to correct the mistakes of others that do not cull, there are thousands of poor creatures that are doomed because of genitic deformities because of others lack of culling and then they suffer needlesly, and most generally need to be put down, to end suffering,.. don't get me started, i have seen this first hand, in all species of animals, the most dangerous is in horses, mans lack or un willingness to do the right thing has mad many horses that are unsuitable for riders as in the mindset of these creatures, case in point, the breed of arabians, they were bred for centuries to live in the tents of their owners and now some are so skitziod that they can hardly stay in a stable, i have worked in a training barn for years and have seen many that have killed thems selves to try to flee from nothing, and then there are others that are what they need to be, yes alot has to do with handling when young but there is a difference,...

and yes, my animals are mostly misfits that are taken in just so they have a good home but there are not that many people that take the time to care for others mistakes

also we cull for type and health and when you get that right they are pretty naturally

when you cull for pretty you get other bad problems as in the arab horses,.. and health issues of cocker spaniels, poodles etc, they are now sickly, people that didn't cull correctly made them this was geneticly,.. so suit the demand of the fad....

in my opinion people should be culled, [not literally]for the reason, of the past big wars ww1 ww2
they govt. only took the best men and left only the 4fs to breed,.. natural selection was comprimised,
nature takes care of its own and when we play God, to try to breed thing we should be as accurate as we can ...

same for deer hunting the hunters only take the best bucks and best does and then you take the genitic out of the gene pool...

natural selection when unchecked by humans, is the only the best, brightest,most colorful,most ingenious, and most strongest get to breed, we as dumb humans don't do this don't do this,...
take a tip from mother nature, if your not the best qualified forget it........

this is why most people should not breed things if the can't take the act of culling then move on... God didn't like culling people but he did it anyway, even though it hurt...it was a necesarry evil....

 

[Malefic23]

I can't tell you how many guppy I've culled over the last seven years due to genetic deformity. Into the arrow or oscar or bichir tank they went. But I've also selected some purely for pattern or shape, or color. For a good few years, my culls established a stable colony in the arrowana tank, if you can imagine that, outbreeding his appetite. The end result? I had to take some off every few weeks to the lfs. Some were sold as feeders, some as fancy gups. After a while, I came to realize I did'nt feel guilty putting them into a big tank with hiding places. I knew these guppies I had selected out had at least a chance at leading a full guppy life. I do feel bad tossing them straight into a tank where they will just be devoured.

I think we have to look at both aspects of this. Fish as pets, and fish as breeding stock. You don't cull pets. You do cull breeding stock. We don't all keep fish for the same reason.

 

[Sploke]

Have yo uever seen a wild-type betta? They don't really look anything like those veiltails you see in the store, never mind crowntails, half moons, etc. How did this happen? Generation upon generation of artificial selection by breeders, culling those fish with undesireable traits. And its not limited to the pet trade. Why do you think you can buy a 20+ lb turkey? Artificial selection. So is it wrong to cull food animals for the intent of improving yield and increasing food supply? I know in CT, we have organized deer hunts because the deer population is way too high - another form of culling. Is it better to let natural selection take its course and let tens or hundreds of deer starve to death for lack of food over the winter?

 

[Easydoesit]

well the deer thing.. we need to control the population bc we screwed up the food chain by killing a whole lot of their natural predators. again its our fault.
i could go on forever but i dnt know, whatever.

 

[Star_Rider]

easydoesit..

the alternative to 'inbreeding' is capture of live wild fish..to enhance the gene pool.
it in itself has drastic side effects to the wild stock . so the choice presents itself..affect the wild fish or continue with current breeding practices.
ultimately the captive gene pool will deplete .
do you have an alternative to your arguement?

actually, depleting the predators is not the sole reason for problems with deer.

remember intervention by people is the reason you have fish.

 

[Easydoesit]

there are still a lot of wild caught fish, so that really doesnt make sense. dont really know why you have those ' things around the word inbreeding. if it has another different term for fish, thats cool. if youre using it bc u dont think it has effects like inbreeding with people or dogs or something does, you dont know that. i bet a huge alien(if there was ever one..) wouldnt be able to tell the difference from a regular person and a mildy retarded person.
but if i knew about all this BS before, i probably wouldnt have even bothered to get fish in the first place, it wouldve saved me money too.
and i know that depleting the predators isnt the sole reason for problems with deer.. their homes vanishing for ppl to build lame "cookie-cutter"(as my mom calls it) housing develpoments is another big problem, not only housing developments though.
so we screwed up the food chain and took away some forests, and now theres too many deer.. so we need to make a sport out of killing them and hanging their heads on a piece of wood to put above our fireplaces.
if theres any real right or wrong, then its safe to say that its WRONG to kill any kind of life because theyre not pretty enough, especially when you allowed and wanted the babies to happen knowing that you would have to kill the ones that werent beautiful and wouldnt make you money, just because its easier. this isnt something that is completely necessary, you guys act like its absolutely 100% necessary. no matter what you tell me, it isnt. and yeah sure its easier, thats why you guys are defending it so much im assuming... but just because theyre 'just fish' doesnt make it any less wrong.
like i said, im not the one doing it, so whatever.. i dont care. ill let you guys just kill fish babies because they dont make you money because theyre not as colorful as they could be.
im sick of posting on this, you arent gonna make me in any way think "oh well, its okay then i guess, i agree"
back to the OPs topic.. i just wish you wouldve tried a little harder to find homes for them, atleast used $5 bucks gas to get them to a LFS. im sure people wouldve bought them.

 

[Sploke]

We could always start killing off humans to make room for the deer. I'd probably actually be ok with that.

 

[Easydoesit]

same.
no.. if we just started building up instead of out i think that would be the best thing to do. either that or screw our laws. of course building up would sacrifice the planted and pooled suburban yards most of you are probably used to, but its the only thing that i see that would work out.

if we dont start doing that soon, i think all the animals in the world are going to be gone some time(except for dogs&catsetc & ppl of course)
so then, it will just be a peoples world and wild animals will be a memory and thered be mad bugs and people would start dieing because bugs were eating their brains or spreading disease or something.
itll all work out in the end. im just not gonna be around for it.
global warming(as the media makes it out to be), hunting to control animal population, animals becoming endangered or extinct.. its all because of people overpopulation bc we are at the top of the food chain so making babies is easy and there are laws that ppl cant kill other ppl. its just a mess i think.
okay, that was really my last post, and a way off topic one. this is probably going to get deleted.

 

[lucy42083]

I really don't think you're getting it....it's not about making money, it is about breeding the healthiest lines of fish so that they can survive and thrive in aquaria long-term. Of course commercial breeders need to make a living like everyone else -- if they didn't, they wouldn't breed fish, and there would be no fish keeping hobby. But the long-term goal for most breeders is to make the healthiest genetic line for a given species of fish. In the wild, 95% of fish born, die. It is called natural selection. If they all survived and bred, eventually the genetics of the fish species would be so weakened that it probably would not survive -- that is the point of natural selection. The same thing would happen if no fish were culled in captivity.

I also don't understand - you seem to be kind of condemning inbreeding, but if people don't cull fish, then this is where inbreeding goes wild. If you don't cull and you breed fish, you are going to end up with weakened, inbred fish, there is absolutely no getting around it.

The only option besides culling would be, as Star-Rider said, to capture live fish to then help enhance the gene pool, which drastically effects the health of the NATURAL gene pool of the fish. I have no idea what you mean when you say that because there are many wild-caught fish, it makes no sense that catching wild fish will deplete the gene pool. I kinda get the feeling you don't know much about genetics or breeding, sorry, obviously that is fine but it seems you are talking of things you know quite little about. Of course there are fish left in the wild, Star-Rider was not saying that we have taken all the fish out of the wild so they are now extinct. S/he was saying that we have drastically changed the gene pool (for the worse) by catching so many wild fish for the aquarium hobby, which eventually yes, could lead to depletion or extinction of the species because of the weakened genetics.

If you believe that culling fish in captivity is morally wrong, and you believe that catching wild fish and taking them from their home of thousands, if not millions, of gallons of water and putting them in a glass cage of 55 gallons and depleting the strength of that species in the wild is morally wrong, then you are definitely in the wrong hobby. Because what you are supporting by keeping fish is exactly thtat.

Also, a good friend of mine just tried to "give away" for free to a LFS 7 (yes SEVEN) convict babies that he had and couldn't keep (unintentional breeding). He went to four different stores and none would take them, for free. So I don't know where the heck the OP could go to "give away" hundreds of fish. A few, maybe, but certainly not even close to all of them.

 

[Easydoesit]

like i said, had i known all this BS i prob wouldnt have got fish in the first place.
and the OPs post wasnt about killing the fish that werent healthy. wow.
i never thought that star_rider said we took all the fish out of the wild...? dno where you got that.
and , yeah there are ways around in breeding other than culling.. you just take 2 fish that arent "related" and you breed them, then sell the fry out before theyre sexually mature, feed or sell the deformed or unhealthy ones which wouldnt be much to a LFS for feeders. whats so hard to understand?
no i do not breed fish, but it doesnt take a genius to understand the basics.
yeah 95% of the fish in the wild die, and it is NATURAL selection, hello? not people selection.

this is just pointless