Danio sourcing

[dougall]

I don't think I said anything about 'selling' necessarily. I just want to create a thing of beauty that others would be able to appreciate. From the looks of the landscape things once thought 'common' may not be so taken for granted as of late. This should be easy but it's not.

Additionally even if I was trying to sell the exact price would not be as important as the margin and quantity sold, but again, this is a hobby for me. My professional occupation is something else entirely, and pays well enough.

If you are planning a breeding project that involves genetics, you are going to have a lot of fish that you don't really care to keep (or at least will not further your project anyway) so you will need a plan for them,

ask anyone who has bred convicts, or bristlenose, or non-show guppies they will tell you how difficult t is to even GIVE fish away.


you may want to say specific what species of fish you want, rather than just listing the genera 'danio' . I want to say that Zebra or Leopard are fairly commonly sold as 'long finned' but you may be thinking of something else.

if you are trying to experiment with genetics, and want to keep the footprint of your operation down, I would suggest maybe looking at ornamental shrimp rather than fish. If you not worried about your number of gallons of water, I would look at angelfish or discus for their popularity. If you want to look specifically at line breeding and to be able to see lots of variety, and where the genetics are fairly well documented, try Betta splendens or guppies. There's always the option of other established live bearers, like swordtails, platies or mollies etc.

 

[Swishy]

They do come long finned, I have some, got ours from a friend at a fish club event, but they are sold frequently in stores, at least around here.

Do you have pictures of what they look like? I'm definitely noticing a significant number of fish labeled 'long-fin' that obviously appear to have normal sized fins. There also does not appear to be any consensus in the aquarium world of what different varieties of danios look like.

And for my own reference does anyone know if all danios are part of the minnow family and if so are all danios & minnows cross breed capable?

 

[Swishy]

If you are planning a breeding project that involves genetics, you are going to have a lot of fish that you don't really care to keep (or at least will not further your project anyway) so you will need a plan for them,

ask anyone who has bred convicts, or bristlenose, or non-show guppies they will tell you how difficult t is to even GIVE fish away.

you may want to say specific what species of fish you want, rather than just listing the genera 'danio' . I want to say that Zebra or Leopard are fairly commonly sold as 'long finned' but you may be thinking of something else.

if you are trying to experiment with genetics, and want to keep the footprint of your operation down, I would suggest maybe looking at ornamental shrimp rather than fish. If you not worried about your number of gallons of water, I would look at angelfish or discus for their popularity. If you want to look specifically at line breeding and to be able to see lots of variety, and where the genetics are fairly well documented, try Betta splendens or guppies. There's always the option of other established live bearers, like swordtails, platies or mollies etc.

I've had convicts before. Those things breed with no assistance whatsoever, lol. I know what you mean about having more than anyone wants. After having tried to breed danios now for about 6 months and only raising ONE single fry to adulthood I think it's safe to say Danios are NOT convicts. They maybe easier to breed than many fish, but they're not easy. They ain't guppies either.

My plan would likely be to trade the unwanted danios back to local pet shops for credit. The 2 local pet shops I've seen lately can't seem to keep them in steady supply so there must be some level of demand and I'm pretty sure that my 'undesirable' off spring will be a step or two better than the current varieties that are available sporadically.

I really appreciate the images of the Gold Long Fin Danio and the Long Fin Leopard Danio (referred to as a Veil Fin on another site) at Aquarium Fish Sale dot com, but even there on that site they appear to be 'sold out' of the Long Fin Leopard. It's stunning how even online sites are running out of a variety of fish that is supposedly so plentifully common. I'd really like to get my hands on a few veil fin leopard danios.

I appreciate these other types of fish (Bettas, Discus, etc.) I've bred guppies before. SUPER Easy. Right now I'm stuck on danios, and nothing else will do. It's something that happens with me. I fix my mind on something until I'm able to achieve it.

 

[dougall]

I have long fined white cloud mountain minnows, not danios.

No pictures of any,

The problem is that there is no real definition of 'long finned' outside of being longer than average/common... Danios generally have pretty short fins, so long isn't necessarily impressive or notable.

As for breeding danios, they are one of the easiest egg laying characins to breed.. just not as easy as convicts. You just need something for eggs to fall into where they can be fertilized but not accessible by the adults who want a snack. A bowl of marbles can work well.

Also condition with live foods, and be sure you are ready to feed the fry.

There's a reason that zebra danios are used in scientific research in the same way rats or nice are.

 

[Swishy]

As for breeding danios, they are one of the easiest egg laying characins to breed.. just not as easy as convicts. You just need something for eggs to fall into where they can be fertilized but not accessible by the adults who want a snack. A bowl of marbles can work well.

Also condition with live foods, and be sure you are ready to feed the fry.

I know 'they are super easy to breed' is the hype. Every time I hear that I want to shout back, 'no they're not', lol.

I'd like to think I have some idea what I'm doing here, but have been crazy unsuccessful. I started by just providing serious cover for the fry (thick fake plants and some smaller live plants), and I'd get a steady number of little ones that would be quickly eaten every morning within seconds of turning on the lights. Then I took to trying to 'rescue' the fry with a syphon tube and isolating them in another tank, but they never lived very long. I did grow infusoria to feed them.

I've recently bought scaffolding and netting so the eggs can safely drop. I gender separated and power-fed w/ live food (aphids, frozen blood worms & baby brine). I ended up getting several dozen eggs, but none of them hatched. Within 3 or 4 days they all sorta melted/evaporated/disappeared. There were no adults or other visible predators in the tank. I don't think any of the eggs were fertilized by the male. I've gotten more males since. They're in quarantine now, but the ones I just got last weekend are pretty basic. Fairly typical zebras. I got them JUST so that I could get a 2nd generation. I'm assuming the traits I want are recessive so it's going to a take a couple generations before I start seeing results.

I have had 2 females with gorgeous long fins that I got with one of the earlier acquisitions. I really want to replicate and enhance these 2 in future generations. I'm hopeful, but it's been an uphill battle. Their lifespan is only a few years and at this rate I won't be able to maintain the traits in a viable line because my progress is so slow and they're life is limited, lol.

I appreciate everyone's advice, and willingness to help. I'm still no closer however to locating a reliable source of long-fin danios w/ verifiable characteristics. Honestly, aside from the obvious zebras I've yet to locate a credible visual online reference for what is what. Most of the leopards even have a WIDE range of identification online, let alone the Celestials. Last night I discovered that wikipedia lists 27 distinct species of danio, but very few of these even have any images attached at wikipedia, and it's doubtful most of these are even available within the hobby/trade.

This is not at all like dog breeding which clearly delineates specific traits for specific dog breeds.

 

[dougall]

try adding live blackworms to your feeding,

I wouldn't rely on just plants to provide enough cover, it will work with some fish, not as well with others, and it's not as controllable.

I have seen the easiest setup to be something like a tupperwaye container, with the top replaced with mesh, there's room for the eggs to fall inside, then be fertilized from above. it's probably good to work with just a pair that you have seen spawning, and then to move them to another aquarium once you appear to have valid eggs.


Not had time to rewatch right now, but think these might help

or

 

[dougall]

gosh, silly time limit for editing, at least the second was fish related..

should have been

(Checks preview this time)

 

[Swishy]

Yeah, I've got the proper equipment at this point. It takes a serious investment of time and/or money to get the right stuff, but I'm in good shape now. Like I said in the last post, I've got to the point where I've got eggs, and they were safe from the parents. They just didn't appear to be fertilized by the male. I kept the water shallow at the top and used plants. I just need better stock at this stage, and getting the right parents is alot harder than I would have guessed.

I'm going to make another attempt again in a week or 2 once I've got the new males through quarantine and everyone's had a chance to adjust and powerfeed, but I would LOVE to get my hands on some veil fins.

 

[dougall]

It sounds like you can fill your time working on breeding the normal strains, and keep looking for the veil tails (I would likely go via aquabid if you cannot get into contact with local clubs)

But the best of luck.

 

[fishorama]

It's much harder to breed for a genetic variation like long fins (see Mendall's punnett squares). Only 1/4 will show long fins, 1/2 will carry the gene for long fins (but look "normal") & 1/4 will be "normal" fins. So you need a few tanks to grow the fry out enough to even guess which have long fins & which "might" carry the gene. It involves breeding back to LF parent stock to their LF offspring to increase your odds of the desired mutation. So you may have lots of fry that don't make the "cut" of long fins or even "maybe" long fins (you can't tell by looking). You'll need a plan for the "other" fish Like some cichlids that eat the "extras". (I find culling to be distressing, maybe you're tougher)

It can be done! But it's not as easy as just breeding fry & raising them. I don't think I've ever seen long fin leopards. They are both a variation of zebra danios & with the long fin gene thing too...so even harder to line breed.

Good luck!