death penalty

[slipknottin]

imo if someone you love got life at least you could work as hard as possible to get them out if you know they're innocent. if they die....well....they're dead

Its not like they are put to death the next week, they are allowed alot of appeals and chances to get released,(part of the reason it costs so much) heck, often times more appeals than those who arent on death row. Notice how almost all of those investigations about innocent people are focused on those on death row? How many people get out of life? Ill bet its a fraction of the number.

I still stand by my original statement that the death penalty is no worse (and often better) than life in prison. Of course you could just look at suicide and attempted suicides in prison to realize that Im not the only one that feels this way...

 

[chunksofpoooo]

but dont you think that if the death pentalty was abolished then the investigations could focus on the life sentance people? those on death row obviously get higher priority, they're gonna die. I just dont think we can decide whether someone deserves to live or not. It seems like the death penalty is less of a "cleaning up the scum" and more of a "getting revenge" kinda thing. Dont you think that life of hard labor would be a bit worse (considering most of those who get the DP dont know or care whats happening, they're generally mentally "damaged")?

call me a wuss, but i just dont think we can determine whether another human deserves to live or not

 

[slipknottin]

but dont you think that if the death pentalty was abolished then the investigations could focus on the life sentance people? those on death row obviously get higher priority, they're gonna die.

I doubt it would. I believe those investigations take place mainly because people are opposed to the death penalty. Not because they are looking out for people wrongly convicted. There are very few groups that do that.

I just dont think we can decide whether someone deserves to live or not.

Whats the difference bewteen that and deciding if someone should be locked away in a box for life? Seems like in either case you are essentially putting someone away.

It seems like the death penalty is less of a "cleaning up the scum" and more of a "getting revenge" kinda thing. Dont you think that life of hard labor would be a bit worse (considering most of those who get the DP dont know or care whats happening, they're generally mentally "damaged")?

I dont advocate the death penatly as a revenge for anything. I believe it should be significantly cheaper than giving someone life in prison, and should be utilized to remove people that are no benefit or future benefit to society.

And I believe mentally damaged is a somewhat broad issue, and yes, some of them should also get death. IMO most of the more violent criminals are mentally "damaged" one way or another. Unless we were going to study them, investigate their ideas/thoughts, to possibly prevent that same type of behavior in the future, I see no reason why they should live. They are of no benefit to society.

 

[chunksofpoooo]

this could go on forever. I understand the points you've made, but i dont think we're gonna convince eachother to change our minds. Thanks for offering me a new perspective

 

[anonapersona]

My spouse was called for jury duty and so we just discussed this, as it will likely be a question for potential jurors.


IMO, you have to look at what your objective is (this is a handy method for all decision making).

If the objective is to keep people from killing people, a deterrant, it doesn't work. Murder is not a rational act, most of the time. The thought of the death penalty may slow someone who is beating a man to death, but it doesn't slow someone pulling a trigger.

If the objective is to protect society from someone who cannot be relied on to refrain from beating someone to death or pulling the trigger to kill someone, then it works, that one person will not kill again, society is protected. And, no, I don't think that prison is as effective here, people get killed in prison, being in prison does not mean that the convicted cannot kill again.

If the objective is justice, then I don't know, I don't think that justice is served by putting someone to death.

Now, I realize that my position, that the death penalty is Ok in order to protect society but not to serve justice, means that the criminally insane and mentally retarded are more likely to be put to death even though they may not comprehend their crimes. But it is because they cannot comprehend what they have done that I think that they are more likely to do it again, so society is in danger. No fair trying to put them in prison for life if they kill someone who is there serving time fairly -- how would you feel if your brother was in for some petty crime, almost ready to get out and got knifed to death by some criminally insane thug who never should have been allowed to hurt another person?

 

[125gJoe]

..........
...
I support a near total reform of the death penalty, not the abolishment of it. I believe prisoners should do hard labor while in prison, and if the person is truly evil enough, should not have the option of life, as society should not pay to keep such a person alive.

It's a difficult subject, but I agree.


----
Society

The totality of social relationships among humans.
A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.
The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group.

 

[daveedka]

Well, every trip to GCC finds some interesting threads.

Most of the arguments here are the same ones always brought up, and I have to hold with slip as far as my personal opinion.

The two comments I would like to address are the following:

If the objective is to keep people from killing people, a deterrant, it doesn't work.

The fact is that when the death penalty was actually used quickly and consitantly it was a great deterrant to crime. In this day and age, there a few states that actually carry out the sentences in any type of reasonable time frame, so it doesn't deter crime as it should. People live on death row for years and years in many states, and can always hope for and count on the laws being changed before their sentence is carried out. if they knew they were going to be put to death, there would be less of these types of crimes. it is the same problem we have with sentencing of all types. A criminal recieves a life sentence and is out on parole in a few years, they are far less likely to be worried about the consequences.

Hell - they eat better than most as last meal and (in most cases) get a simple injection. Some punishment. Do most people know that the psychopathic people, who are often put to death, feel little to no emotion? Better yet, does anyone realize that these people often do not care whether they live or die?

They are still dead, they are still not able to hurt anyone else. I believe in being very humane, And do not believe in revenge as a motiff. If we allow them to live then they get pretty much a life of luxury at our expense, the only thing they lose is their freedom (which is a big deal I agree), but most prisoners live better than the innocent people out trying to make ends meet, so the death penalty is still worse than life in prison.
Dave

 

[aquariumfishguy]

I guess you have to walk a mile in their shoes to get it. Personally, I haven't been placed in jail, or anything of the sort. However, in my research I did interview numerous people who were facing a death sentence. One kid (notice the word kid) was barely 18, and was waiting to see if he would live or die. I feel that these young kids can be rehabilitated and sent back into society (many of them, not all) to be productive people. Some of them literally cry themselves to sleep at night - male and female. I am not trying to show sympathy towards these people, I just want others to realize some people make mistakes, and deserve second chances.

... Not all on death row cold bloodedly killed someone. Some have been raped or molested numerous times. Should they die for turning out how they were raised (taught)? It is an interesting question.

And even after all is said and done in this thread, I would bet my life that if any of you lost your loved ones to the DP and they were in fact innocent, you’d be pretty pissed and want revenge on the system as a whole.

 

[slipknottin]

Not all on death row cold bloodedly killed someone. Some have been raped or molested numerous times. Should they die for turning out how they were raised (taught)? It is an interesting question.

Hence why the system needs a makeover. And age has little if anything to do with their ability to be rehabilitated.

And even after all is said and done in this thread, I would bet my life that if any of you lost your loved ones to the DP and they were in fact innocent, you’d be pretty pissed and want revenge on the system as a whole.

And that would be no different than if one of my loved ones was sent to prison for life. In either case they are essentially gone.

 

[125gJoe]

Death or Life Imprisoned --

It can be obvious some do not "belong" in society.

I can give an updated example as "not belonging in society" .

Saddam Hussian. Dictator, ruthless murderer, extremely sadistic beyond imagination .